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| General Palace Discussion General Palace talk - please keep transfer talk in the transfer forum. |
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#1
01-08-2002, 05:40 AM
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Our Squad
Have a look at:
.................................................. ................... ..................Akinbiyi.........Freedman....... ............. ..................Adebola.........Johnson......... ............ .................................................. ................... Gray..............Derry...........Riihilahti...... ........Black Rubins.........Thomson.......Butterfield.......Rou tledge .................................................. ................... Granville........Popovic..........Mullins......... .....Smith (Harrison).....Berhalter........Symons...........F leming Framption......(Antwi)............................ ............ .................................................. ................... ............................Clarke................ ................. ...........................Kolinko................ ................. .................................................. ................... Or perhaps? .................................................. ................... ..................Akinbiyi.........Freedman....... ............. ..................Adebola.........Johnson......... ............ .................................................. ................... ...........................Routledge.............. ............... ..............................Black............... ................. .................................................. ................... Gray..............Derry...........Riihilahti...... ........Smith Rubins.........Thomson.......Butterfield.......... Fleming .................................................. ................... ..................Mullins...Popovic...Symons...... .......... ................Granville...Berhalter..Antwi...... ............ .................................................. ................... ............................Clarke................ ................. ...........................Kolinko................ ................. .................................................. ................... Any reactions? well the crazy thing that i'm trying to imply by this is perhaps we have a squad?  , yeah obviously we have a squad. But i'm meaning perhaps we have a fairly balanced squad, all positions covered and to a reasonable standard? Sorry everyone, i'm being positive for once.  Comments please...
__________________
Don't waste your time on jealousy. Sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind. The race is long and, in the end, it's only with yourself. WE ONLY HATE BRIGHTON! *BLACK KIT TRIBUTE COMES TO A BBS NEAR YOU* Undisputed Champion ************************** CRAZY TREVOR'S RED BLUE ARMY C..............P................F..............C CRAZY TREVOR'S RED BLUE ARMY C..............P................F..............C ************************** 
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#3
01-08-2002, 06:42 AM
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I think the strength of the squad is improving, yes; but with a couple of notable exceptions, it is the same side that Steve Bruce led to the dizzy heights of Division One. I really feel that the potential is there, and has been for some time. The question is, playing the brand of football we now do, can we really expect anything great from the team. Hoofball to Freedman and Johnson is highly amusing, but very ineffective. Both are good players, but they could get on each others shoulders and still not win a header against a decent centre-half.
 
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#5
01-08-2002, 07:07 AM
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I'd like to see AJ playing with Freedman up front. Happy to leave Ade and Adebola out completely unless AJ or Dougie are injured or we need Ade/Adebola in there based on the other team's clear weaknesses.
It's really quite amusing if we have two forwards whose names are Ade.
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"Confidence breeds confidence and success breeds success, which is infectious" (Malcolm Allison)
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#6
01-08-2002, 11:26 AM
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I can't explain this really, but I'm convinced Akinbiyi and Dougie can do the business up front for us. Akinbiyi has a good record at this level and if he had come to us direct from Wolves we would be looking forward to him ripping apart defences and scoring the goals.
I think we now have a good balance and depth and in all fairness TF has shown himself to be a good operator in the transfer field. Its now down to the tactics and injuries. I feel I'm in the smaller positive camp on the BBS - but ask yourself this. Would Dougie have signed a new 4 year deal so quickly if things were as bad behind the scenes as we all believe them to be?
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#8
01-08-2002, 02:08 PM
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one question. Did we really play a hoofball under francis last season??
Yes agianst Forest we played a horrible 4-3-3 and hoofed the ball all game. However away at bradford we didn't. we played a 3-4-1-2 passing game. As we did at Newcastle. As we did at Man City. Yes both Newcastle and Man City we lost but we were not far off in both matches. We were playing passing football under francis. Could it be that we are not infact playing hoofball but and adaptable mixed style. Where if Francis gets it right we will play a certain way one week then a more direct game against certain opposition. Yes i said direct - startistically proven that some elements of what people call "hoofball" are statistically proven to be the way to win playing football. Last night wasn't hoofball to Freedman and Johnson. We played a pretty mixed game. Some good intricate moves between thomson, mullins and others. Then some more direct balls to adebola and freedman. I'd rather have Freedman and Johnson battling for the place as they are very similar players. The only difference is Johnson gets up well in the air. SO perhaps it is possible to play them together because of that. However it would be much better to have that Target in Adebola/Akinbiyi with the smaller,more skillful, faster Freedman/Johnson. This also fits totally with the idea of mixed football depending on the situation. If we are going to play hoofball we'd play akinbiyi and adebola up front. With that kind of split strike force it gives you the mixed options. One direct to Ade(S). The other short dropping deeper to Freedman or Johnson.
__________________
Don't waste your time on jealousy. Sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind. The race is long and, in the end, it's only with yourself. WE ONLY HATE BRIGHTON! *BLACK KIT TRIBUTE COMES TO A BBS NEAR YOU* Undisputed Champion ************************** CRAZY TREVOR'S RED BLUE ARMY C..............P................F..............C CRAZY TREVOR'S RED BLUE ARMY C..............P................F..............C **************************
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#10
01-08-2002, 11:12 PM
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we have cover in all position - yes!
we have quality to win 25 games - no!
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#12
02-08-2002, 04:04 AM
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Quote:
This statistical data you refer to was a study undertaken by one of the directors of coaching at the FA (English) in the late 1980s. What the guy did (can't remember who, sorry) was watch a large number of games and count the number of passes in a movement that lead to a goal. He discovered that it was a very low number, something like 3 1/2 on average. On that basis, he concluded that it playing direct football (ie hoofing the ball up quickly) was the most effective winning tactic. He even postulated that it was because defenses couldn't get properly organised if you so quickly moved from defense to attack. This study has since become a bit of a classic amongst statisticians as an example of how to set up an experiment that will produce meaningless data. There are two flaws in the experimental design that make its results worthless. Firstly, the experiment had a serious sampling bias. The teams sampled were English, where there is a much higher number playing hoofball anyway. Thus more goals were scored by hoofers. Once the ratio of hoofing teams to passing teams is figured into the data of similar experiments, hoofers are found to be consistently less likely to score. Secondly, if a goal was scored from a set piece, the original survey did not bother to count the passing move that may have lead to the corner or free kick. So a goal from a corner counted as one pass, and the six or seven passes that lead to a shot that was turned behind to win the corner were ignored. The same experiment has been repeated on many occassions at all levels from professional to Sunday strollers and passing has always been more successful. Unfortunately, to gain an English coaching badge you will get the original data thrown at you and not the refutation, so English coaches continue to like the big up and under. This is not to say that Symon10's points are invalid. You can score with hoofball and it can be an effective change of pace but to win on a consistent basis a predominantly short passing game is your best chance of success. Sorry, I'll be quiet now. Thanks.
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#13
02-08-2002, 04:09 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by Symon10
[b]one question. Did we really play a hoofball under francis last season?? Most matches YES.........and when we didnt we did nothing at all  Why do you think TF reinstated Dean Austin.
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Formerly known in 2000/01 season as "Neil in Orpington"
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#15
02-08-2002, 05:02 AM
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I read the book a couple of years back. I can't remember the reasoning for the fact i overcame my sceptical viewpoint on it - exactly like you did. I thought it was bias,etc. I will try and find out what it was that changed my mind. As you say there have been more recent tests regarding this issue. And like you say i've been shown the original ones. I'll get looking in the past few coaches journals i've got. I think there might have been something there. In the original statistics the key analysis and conclusion was based on world cup matches. There was a lot of analysis in english leagues as well.
Thanxs for the excellent reply hughff!!! I write threads the length of yours and often get one word answers. It's nice to actually get something constructive back. A simple bit of logic on direct football. By playing the ball forward as much as possible you are increasing the oppotunity for the ball to get to the oppositions goal and so get in the back of the net. By keeping possesion it doesn't mean you are going to be in a position to create an oppotunity. As of course a direct game doesn't. However you are getting the ball into dangerous areas more frequently. I'm a strong believer in that you shouldn't be set on one method or another. This is the main reason i am quite positive about francis so far. He has changed our style of play during games and for different matches. It's just a case of choosing the right tactics for the correct situation. The merit of a possesion game if you are leading a game is invaluable for example. But if you are in a position like england were against brazil. Just gone 2-1 down. You have to play a direct game. You have to attack your opposition or like england you will go through the last stages of the game with really causing any problems. On that issue quickly i believe the reaction to the sweden game by everyone that we played too many long balls meant we were scared to do it against Brazil, when we really needed to! Lots of things have good and bad points. As does direct football. As does possesion football. It's a case for francis to get the balance right and i'm hopeful he will. I didn't believe we played "hoofball" as much as people think under francis last season. On austin. hehe. yup i missed him out. ooopsy. wonder why that was!
__________________
Don't waste your time on jealousy. Sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind. The race is long and, in the end, it's only with yourself. WE ONLY HATE BRIGHTON! *BLACK KIT TRIBUTE COMES TO A BBS NEAR YOU* Undisputed Champion ************************** CRAZY TREVOR'S RED BLUE ARMY C..............P................F..............C CRAZY TREVOR'S RED BLUE ARMY C..............P................F..............C ************************** Last edited by Symon10 : 02-08-2002 at 05:06 AM.
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#16
02-08-2002, 05:47 AM
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The problem I see with longer ball games is that shorter passes are more accurate and you can't score if the ball isn't going to your own team. If a striker doesn't have to fight for the ball when he receives it, he can get on with attacking but too often in the long ball game the centre forward has to first win the ball in the air in such a way that his teammates can use it. As a defender, I also think that long passes are much easier to deal with.
However, I do agree that, all too often when playing possession a team concentrates so much on not giving the ball away that they lose penetration. In the Brazil/England game, the Brazilians never abandoned short passing and still got good penetration. It takes practise and skill and hard running off the ball to get the short passsing game working right but when it does, it is both the most exciting and the most effective way to play football.
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#17
02-08-2002, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Very good analysis, and I generally agree with your points. A couple of thoughts: 1. While keeping posession doesn't mean you are going to score, it certainly prevents the other team from doing so! Another way of making this point is that the best defence is a good offense. 2. Re: playing a direct game when you are down -- there is something called patience! Another way of making this point is: "to all who wait, good things will come."
__________________
"Confidence breeds confidence and success breeds success, which is infectious" (Malcolm Allison)
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#18
02-08-2002, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Akinbiyi vs. Freedman 100m sprint, who would you fancy?
__________________
It's just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long, the grasshopper kept burying acorns for winter, while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched tv. But then the winter came, and the grasshopper died, and the octopus ate all his acorns and also he got a racecar. Is any of this getting through to you?
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#19
02-08-2002, 04:41 PM
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Lol, yeah. I wasn't meaning running. I was meaning faster with the ball - lots of words have different meanings. In a sprit akinbiyi would win obviously. Freedman is fast with the ball at his feet. More skillful and so moves the ball faster. Akinbiyi is fast but not with the ball. Freedman is. That is one reason that kind of partnership compliments each other.
__________________
Don't waste your time on jealousy. Sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind. The race is long and, in the end, it's only with yourself. WE ONLY HATE BRIGHTON! *BLACK KIT TRIBUTE COMES TO A BBS NEAR YOU* Undisputed Champion ************************** CRAZY TREVOR'S RED BLUE ARMY C..............P................F..............C CRAZY TREVOR'S RED BLUE ARMY C..............P................F..............C **************************
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#20
02-08-2002, 04:52 PM
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Blimey, i dont beleive it, a positive (just abouts) outlook for the team pre-season.
I wouldnt know how half these players can play, and find out about them from your comments on this BBS. I'm just hoping the players do the business, not least cos it will give me an excuse to come to England (minus the wife and 4 kids, hence a fraction of the cost and carte blanche to do what i like  ) to see my team in the playoffs or promotional game.But one very pertinant question hit me when i saw these comments, what would it take to get Trevor accepted ?? promotion, 4th place, 5 ? a decent cup run, or even just a competative, entertaining season, ????
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Ex South Londoner
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