| Shoreditch CPFC |
| What is going on then? Is he replacing Ashton? Working as his boss? Where does Rob Andrew fit in? Sounds very top heavy management to me. |
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| saxoneagle |
From what I can gather Andrew will be Johnson's boss. Johnson will be Ashton's boss.
It sounds like a joke to me, never mind top heavy.
Get the cheque book out and but out Gats contract with the taffs. Get rid of Andrew, Ashton and a few more old farts and put Johnson in with Gats and Edwards to learn his trade.
Simple and should've been done after the WC... |
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| Shoreditch CPFC |
Good news about the nurses...
Johnson farce is no laughing matter
The extraordinary mess the RFU has made over the England management and coaching team is an ongoing disgrace
Robert KitsonApril 8, 2008 11:06 AM
The England coaching saga reminds me of a hoary old joke. Three men are stranded on a desert island in shark-infested waters. The first decides to risk the half-mile swim to land, but fails to make it. The second also meets a grim and bloody end. The third dives into the water and, without being touched, makes it to the mainland where he strolls into the nearest beach bar and orders a beer. "How come you made it and the others didn't?" asks the barman. "That's easy," replies the dripping stranger. "I wore a T-shirt saying 'Francis Baron is a genius' and even the sharks wouldn't swallow that."
Sorry, I never promised it would be amusing. But, then again, neither is the farcical position the Rugby Football Union has managed to engineer for itself. Let's just recap for those struggling to keep up:
1) Twickenham bosses give Brian Ashton a vote of confidence following an extensive post-World Cup review, but apparently change their mind within three months.
2) The RFU approaches Martin Johnson, who has never coached or managed a professional team in his life.
3) No one seems to know the precise job description being offered to Johnson but, hey, since when did that matter?
4) Ashton has heard nothing from Twickenham and is being kept abreast of developments through the newspapers. It is possibly the worst case of employer/employee mistreatment since Arkwright and Granville in Open All Hours.
The whole mishandled affair arouses various emotions. The first is sadness: Ashton remains a decent man with rare coaching gifts whose position has been crudely and unfairly undermined by individuals who possess neither of his aforementioned qualities. But there is also a sense of anger, scorn and, increasingly, outrage that none of the backroom protaganists seem willing to hold up their hands and acknowledge the extraordinary mess they have helped to create, the nasty smell of which will linger for years whether or not Johnson makes a success of his new role.
It is an ongoing disgrace, for a start, for the RFU to be openly debating who should front up the national team with the incumbent still around. That crass lack of judgement and moral fibre should be reason in itself to doubt whether the same individuals should be trusted to reach the right conclusions as to which direction to take next. Let's say Johnson takes charge on May 1. Whatever anyone says, I simply can't see Ashton happily staying on unless he retains the final say in selection. Johnson, to have any chance of doing the job properly, would require that same power of veto. My current information is that Mike Catt would be the preferred backs' coach under a Johnson-run regime. Where would that leave Ashton? Collecting up the bibs after training? Apart from being an insult to a coach of Ashton's experience, change at the top cannot be fumblingly piecemeal.
For English rugby to navigate its way back down the creek and resume paddling, therefore, it requires more than simply the appointment of a stern ex-captain with a famous frown. Now that Rob Andrew has hacked some sort of path through the club v country foilage and declined to take over as team manager, his whip-cracking role in the Twickenham hierachy clearly needs redefining. Baron is a money man who has been in the chief exec's chair for almost a decade. The Professional Game Board is about to be born, but there are still too many amateurs able to dictate how the England national team is run. To put it bluntly, there are too many cooks and none of them is Jamie Oliver.
The RFU's top brass are due to defend themselves shortly at a midweek briefing. Senior union executives have even invited their media snipers to dine with them afterwards, on the proviso that anything the former say is strictly off the record and unattributable. It reminds me of the famous old line uttered by the Test and County Cricket Board's AC Smith - "No comment, but don't quote me" - which, sadly, still seems to be the modus operandi of many of his oval-ball successors. If they want to appoint Johnson they should finalise the deal with immediate effect, do the decent thing in terms of Ashton and then retreat back into the shrubbery. One can only assume Johnson himself has been so annoyed by much of what has happened since the 2003 World Cup that his patience has run out. Why on earth, otherwise, would he consider getting involved now? Until there is a complete shift in the mindset of those in positions of executive power at Twickenham, there will be no guarantee of a happy ending.
Pride before a fall
Interesting, isn't it, how many big games are being won on the rebound? England push Wales to the brink of submission at Twickenham only to be floored themselves in the second-half. Leicester thrash Wasps in the EDF semi-final and then lose at home to the same opponents the following week. And then, most startling of all, the Ospreys lose the European plot in Watford just a fortnight after hammering Saracens by the modest margin of 30-3 at the Millennium Stadium. Given the Ospreys are virtually Wales in disguise, it suggests English and Welsh players are as prone as each other to mental disintegration. The big winners last weekend? Step forward Warren Gatland and Shaun Edwards, whose reputations as the kings of rugby psychology grow by the week.
Lions set pulses racing
Here at The Guardian we don't really do nudge-nudge wink-wink jokes. So no sniggering as we exclusively reveal the world's most gloriously inappropriate clash of dates. The first Test of next year's Lions tour is provisionally scheduled for Durban on the same weekend as the city is set to host a conference of - wait for it - nurses. If that newsflash does not cause the sale of tour packages to go through the roof, nothing will.
Comments
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Foilage
April 8, 2008 11:33 AM
London/gbr "rare coaching gifts"
Can we put this stinking old myth down once and for all? Ashton WAS a coach of rare ability (from all accounts) but has anyone seen any evidence of it in his tenure as both attack coach and national coach since 2003?
Didn't think so.
Fire him, fire Ford, fire Wells and most of all fire Andrew.
Let's have a clean slate and start again.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Twickers
April 8, 2008 11:37 AM
London/gbr So who are these faceless, nameless nabobs who seem to be bringing little but incompetent guidance to a rudderless ship?
Anyone know?
I'd like to see them named in this blog, I'd like to see links to pictures of them. I'd like to see their qualifications.
How many of them have been here since Carling called them out as "old farts in blazers"? (And if there are some still - why?). It's not Amateur hour anymore - if the Premiership clubs can skill up for the modern game, why can't the RFU?
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Boycie
April 8, 2008 11:38 AM
Shrewsbury/gbr Idiots idiots idiots. I just don't understand it, the only comparision would be Marco Van Basten and Holand?
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Indifensible
April 8, 2008 11:45 AM
Leeds/gbr For those of you that think iconic rugby players must also make good coaches/managers/director of rugby or whatever you want to call it take a look at how Tana Umaga is doing at Toulan with his "all star" team!
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] mistertiddles
April 8, 2008 11:56 AM
London/gbr I wasn't sure about Johnson re: his lack of coaching/managerial experience. But then I listened to Tindall and Greenwood talking about him in almost religious tones - his knowledge of the game etc. It made me think that maybe he can be the inspiration to bring the best out of a bunch of individuals who seem to play so much more exciting for their clubs. I've always admired Ashton but maybe this is the best way forward.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] francaise
April 8, 2008 11:56 AM
Aubervilliers/fra In the 1960s, three boys are playing in the street in Yorkshire when they get hit by a car. They all go to Heaven and God says to them, "You're not supposed to die before your time and should have lived full lives. I'll let you return to Earth and you can choose what you want to do with your lives. Run as fast as you can and jump off that cloud behind you. As you're soaring back to mortality cry out what you want to do or be. Thus it shall be granted."
The first boy turns, runs and leaps into the void and shouts "Rock star!" Forty years later he's had numerous hit albums, done world tours and is a global celebrity.
The second boy turns runs and jumps and shouts "Philanthropist!" Forty years pass and he's saved countless lives in the struggle for others less fortunate.
The third kid, when running, trips over his own feet and blunders ungainly off the cloud at the same time shouting "Stupid bungling tw*t!" Forty years later he's Director of Elite Rugby at the RFU.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] mattutes
April 8, 2008 12:26 PM
Eindhoven/nld Lay off the RFU chaps. It's our major source of excuse when we play like idiots.
The only coach's stock who went up over the Hairsprays defeat belongs to Gaffney surely.
Considering Wasps got knocked out at the group stages, I'm not sure how that puts Edwards in a good light.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] andyjack
April 8, 2008 12:26 PM
Birmingham/gbr Ashton is NOT a great coach, at least certainly not with national sides. It's worth remembering that England's greatest (recent) win against Ireland was when Ashton coached Ireland and their greatest (recent) loss to Ireland was when he coached England. That must tell us something.
Foliage is right. Get rid of them all and start again. Whoever comes in will have three years to get a team together for the next world cup, which really ought to be long enough.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Foilage
April 8, 2008 12:33 PM
London/gbr I don't want to lay off the RFU.
Instead, I'd much rather we had a winning England side and didn't need their incompetence as an excuse.
Is there a petition we can sign anywhere (or a revolution we can start) to get rid of every idiot involved in this sorry mess?
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] daveErinys
April 8, 2008 12:42 PM
Nuremberg/deu For me Ashton cannot dare demand any selection role within England because of his ridiculous choices in the six nations. Specifically, sticking with olds in the front row, having no clue or consistency in the 9 and 10 spot and the worst of all: the annoying, constant selection of Balshaw and Vainokolo week in week out. One of whom is entirely out of form and the other in his first season of rugby union.
Andrew has made a complete pigs ear of the whole Johnson affair in what seems to be an incredibly vain re-enactment of Wales' managerial selection.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] YAMFURY
April 8, 2008 12:47 PM
Newcastle-under-lyme/gbr Its a results business and Ashton's six nation campaign had two very bad results that always put his rolling contract at risk. Futhermore, signs of real progress in terms of a new England game plan were almost non-existent. I am suprised the RFU has turned to Johnno as I thought Dean Richards, Richard Hill or Dean Ryan would have been worth a shot but as they have they must give him carte blanche to pick a coaching team he trusts 100% even if that means he is bringing in less experienced coaches. In reality I can only see Rowntree surviving from the existing set up with Catt and Back joining him and possibly Dorian West. I stongly believe if he does take the job on these terms the first call he will make will be to a cetain Mr Howard to see if the family business will afford him another sabtical.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Bentos1
April 8, 2008 12:51 PM
London/gbr 'twasn't that long ago my friends when all of Taffland was up in despair about the WRU. We have a stadium, they said, but we haven't got a team isn't it.
A generation of talented players and the arrival of a strong and focused coaching team have turned that all around (at least for the moment, ask francais how long he reckons it'll take them to bullock it up again).
If we take as read that the RFU is similarly if not more incompetent to the WRU and I believe we've got the players if they were actually selected, unfortunately strong and focused is probably the exact opposite of the present English coaching set-up.
This is not Ashtons fault, he's been undermined and abused from day one. But it's also clear he is not ruthless enough to beat the damned thing into the shape he wants. I feel sorry for him, he's been treated like cr@p, but he surely can't go on.
Johnson, however, is the complete opposite of what England actually need.
Go Malta!!
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] trendychorlton
April 8, 2008 12:52 PM
Manchester/gbr personally, i find it baffling that jake white has not been offered the job. he seems a good fit for english rugby, both in terms of his arrogance (sorry couldnt resist), and also his preffered style of play. and as its been mentioned, its a results business, and white has won a world cup.
johnson? could end in tears. how long would he be given by the press/fans?
also, i have just been informed that edwards has signed up until the WC 2011.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Foilage
April 8, 2008 12:59 PM
London/gbr Re Ashton's selection quaities:
It is nothing more than laughable that he has the temerity to demand final say in selection- and worse than that I read somewhere that he wants to select the manager.
This should not be allowed. At any cost. It isn't so much the selections he did make (although these were bad enough), it was the marginalisation and ridiculous treatment of other in form and highly talented individuals that made my blood boil- Tait, Simpson-Daniel, Cipriani, Lewsey, and Wilkinson were all treated very f-ing badly by the one-man managerial disaster.
Look at the stupid selections- the pick then drop of Cipriani (that just smacked of desperation to keep Daz in the side), the selection of proven choker Hodgson on the bench after Cipriani's dustbinning (when there were already TWO fly halves in the side), The mystifying continued selection of Vanikolo/ Daz over god knows how many other candidates, the scapegoating of Wilkinson after the Scotland fiasco (not that he didn't deserve dropping, but he wasn't alone- at least ten of them did), The demotion of Tait to the bench, (a complete waste), the constant non-selection of SD or Lewsey......
You can go on with this for hours, and it all points to the fact that he should not have ANY say at all in personnel. If he's such a visionary coach (something I'm very far from allowing) then let him coach backs that someone else selects. The man has no talent for it himself.
Rant over, sorry about that.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] EifionJ
April 8, 2008 1:29 PM
A week or so ago I was at a Rugby Dinner where Bob Taylor, the President of the RFU, spoke. He had the gall to criticise the WRU for the way they handled the Gareth Jenkins situation, suggesting the RFU would have done nothing of the kind. At least Jenkins had a quick death, and was equally quickly replaced by a proven winning coach. Ashton has been set up for a slow, lingering death, to be replaced by an inexperienced coach/manager. Taylor has been true to his word, but I suspect not in the way he expected or wanted. It may have taught him to stay away from other peoples business, and concentrate on making his own business tight from criticism.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] munci76
April 8, 2008 1:58 PM
Bromsgrove/gbr For the first time ever, I actually agree with a Robert Kitson column. The current situation is an utter disgrace and will probably not be resolved satisfactorily for years. Spot on.
I think he was also (technically) correct when he described Ashton as a coach of rare gifts. He has displayed a very rare gift for a hilariously stubborn selections policy and dodgy half-time team talks, you can't deny that.
And yes, as mentioned, the WRU have only just (and still only briefly) emerged as a union that can make swift, sensible decisions, after many, many decades of being HUGELY, depressingly awful.
You think the RFU are bad? just remember what our lot managed in the wake of the 2005 Grand Slam. The RFU have got to go some way to beat that pinnacle of managerial halfwittedness.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] jonnyboy71
April 8, 2008 2:08 PM
Brighton/gbr munci, 2003, World Cup, massive slide not arrested as of 2008. Your Grand what?
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] banjolele
April 8, 2008 2:12 PM
Sheffield/gbr Jamie Oliver - Fifteen - yes I see where you are going with this. Great idea. Get the boy in now to serve up some pukka English rugby. Perfect.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Bentos1
April 8, 2008 2:21 PM
London/gbr What are the odds of the whole Johnson thing falling through and the RFU deciding to continue with the status quo?
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] munci76
April 8, 2008 2:24 PM
Bromsgrove/gbr JB, OK fair point. Difficult to beat maybe, but at least the RFU hasn't got Ashton working on a handshake with no whiff of a contract.
And you haven't got the RFU talking to players behind the coaches back...er, oh, actually they've done that, haven't they?
OK, maybe the RFU are more rubbish that I thought, but let's be honest, the massive slide in English rugby since 2003 (RWC07 notwithstanding) can't all be blamed on the RFU. If you had better players, maybe you'd have had a chance.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] SaintrlBev
April 8, 2008 2:29 PM
London/gbr Can anyone hear that noise? What is it?
Its the sound of English rugby imploding.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] mattutes
April 8, 2008 2:47 PM
Eindhoven/nld Hmm, in between the WRU bloodletting and RFU procrastination there has to be a happy medium in there somewhere.
Not sure about English rugby imploding, perhaps England rugby imploding is a better statement. The club game has never been in finer health.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Foilage
April 8, 2008 2:50 PM
London/gbr Don't even joke about that Bentos.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Bentos1
April 8, 2008 2:57 PM
London/gbr SaintrlBev, you wish pal, you wish. I'd be very, very surprised if England didn't go into the 2011 World Cup as the best placed of the home nations.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Skinz
April 8, 2008 3:00 PM
How anyone can say Brian Ashton isn't a top coach is beyond me. His record speaks for itself.
He was assistant coach at Bath back in the glory days of the late 80's early 90's and when he took over the reins he led Bath to their last domestic trophy. In his second spell at Bath he got them to the qtr finals of the HC and laid the foundations for their current revival in form. After a short reign as Ireland boss (where he had a pool of players so bad that they had finished bottom of the 5 nations for 3 seasons running and despite the intervention of the god-like Warren Gatland failed, for the first time, to get a qtr final berth for the RWC) he was recruited by SCW and helped turn England into world beaters and was then promoted to National Academy Manager. In his current role he has helped England to their best 6N/RWC finishes since 2003.
Johnson will be a great manager one day but he shouldn't be throw him in at the deep end now - save that for the old farts in blazers at HQ; and tie some weights to their legs so the buggers sink.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] jonnyboy71
April 8, 2008 3:01 PM
Brighton/gbr Bentos, congrats on paying off your student loan. I just rang up Glasgow and told them I'd died. You are truly the man I should have been.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] mattutes
April 8, 2008 3:07 PM
Eindhoven/nld Anyone who thinks Ashton is shit obviously doesn't remember Geoff Cook or Dick Greenwood.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Bentos1
April 8, 2008 3:13 PM
London/gbr JB, one month after my 30th birthday I pay off my student loan! HUZZAH!!
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] snoopster
April 8, 2008 3:15 PM
"3) No one seems to know the precise job description being offered to Johnson but, hey, since when did that matter?"
By "no one", do you mean the press?
I apologise if wrong but that's how I'm reading it and it makes me think this whole article is a bitter whine about the sheer front of the RFU in daring to not let every stage of the process under go trial by press.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Foilage
April 8, 2008 3:15 PM
London/gbr Ashton is not a great coach NOW. He was a great coach, but since 2003 he has been frankly shit. We've been lambasting certain players for not being the men they once were is it that far out of the question for the coach to have declined?
And I do remember Geoff Cook and Dick Greenwood. Sadly.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] mattutes
April 8, 2008 3:19 PM
Eindhoven/nld Bentos,
You just change your address once and then they never find you again.
Oh wait.
Are you still living in your student digs?
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Foilage
April 8, 2008 3:20 PM
London/gbr Having said that he doesn't deserve this treatment.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] trendychorlton
April 8, 2008 3:22 PM
Manchester/gbr S'aintrlBev, you wish pal, you wish. I'd be very, very surprised if England didn't go into the 2011 World Cup as the best placed of the home nations.'
as is the fashion on the net with the hip kids...LOL.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Bentos1
April 8, 2008 3:27 PM
London/gbr Trendy my hip is fine.
Well..
..getting better.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] mattutes
April 8, 2008 3:40 PM
Eindhoven/nld I'd rather be hip than trendy.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] munci76
April 8, 2008 3:53 PM
Bromsgrove/gbr Michael Owen (Footie) 2006 - "Man for Man, we're probably the best team in the world"
Michal Owen (Footie) 2007 - "There's not a single Croatian player that could get into this England team"
Bentos1 2008 - "I'd be very surprised if England didn't go into the 2011 RWC as the strongest Home Union side"
ho ho ho ho ho ho ho, you've got to laugh at the perennially deluded, have you not?
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Bentos1
April 8, 2008 4:00 PM
London/gbr Who's deluded? Just compare and contrast England and Wales respective World Cup records.
Who gives a monkeys about the Chavball anyway?
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Masamune
April 8, 2008 4:00 PM
London/gbr sorry just misread the title of this blog as:
"Johnson face no laughing matter"... indeed not!
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Foilage
April 8, 2008 4:13 PM
London/gbr Bentos is Michael Owen?
Wow.
No wonder he managed to pay his student loan off.
Seriously though, in all probability England shoud be best placed of the home nations, but by the time the RFPoo finish screwing up you can bet there is a good chance Ireland or Wales will be. England could go in hoping for a QF place again.
It's all too depressing,
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] mattutes
April 8, 2008 4:23 PM
Eindhoven/nld Michael Owen is Welsh anyway. And so is Michael Owen.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Arsh
April 8, 2008 4:24 PM
London/gbr Ashton has been given just over 12 months. How long was Woodward given, or Eddie Lewis with Australia or Jake White with SA. How long was it before Alex Ferguson won anything with the richest club in the world?
It's absurd to criticise the man, or denigrate his coaching abilities, on the basis of a year in which we've come runners-up in the two biggest competitions in world rugby, especially when you consider the pretty appalling catalogue of injuries he's had to contend with. The grass is always greener Foliage.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Wiesengrund
April 8, 2008 4:24 PM
London/gbr Could someone explain why England should be the best placed of the home nations for 2011?
Any basis in fact or just a hunch based on past performance?
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Foilage
April 8, 2008 4:43 PM
London/gbr Arsh-
It is very possible to look at the performance of the England attack from 2003-now (the bit he is meant to be such a visionary) and see little more than abject failure,
The grass is always greener though.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] mattutes
April 8, 2008 4:46 PM
Eindhoven/nld Yes Wiesengrund, let me enlighten you.
England are shit right now, but they would only have to be better than Ireland, Scotland and the Ospreys to go into 2011 RWC as the best home union nation. That is not a massive ask and they should be able to do it. All they have to do is become a little less shit.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Indifensible
April 8, 2008 4:46 PM
Leeds/gbr England were the best placed home nation going in to the 07 WC even though they had about 6 months preperation, a new coach with no control over his players, with no say say over his other coaches and an ageing old bunch of slow has-beens.
Even if we get it wrong again for the next 3 years we'll probably still be in the best position.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Spongie
April 8, 2008 4:58 PM
London/gbr "...especially when you consider the pretty appalling catalogue of injuries he's had to contend with"
That still doesn't explain Regan, any of the second row selections, Easter, Worsley, Wilkinson being picked, Wilkinson being dropped, Cipriani's nightclub shenanigans, Vainikolo, Vainikolo, Vainikolo, Balshaw, Balshaw, Balshaw, Tait, JSD, Lewsey, etc etc.
With more players playing the game than the other five participants in the Six Nations put together (and then some), were I an England supporter I wouldn't really consider that a viable excuse.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Bentos1
April 8, 2008 4:58 PM
London/gbr Wales were a total mess, humiliatingly dumped out of the World Cup at the group stage a mere 6 months ago. Enter Mssrs Gatland and Edwards and they've been dramatically turned around.
Of course it turns out Wales did have the players.
I believe England have the players, we just haven't been selecting them for some daft reason. My hope is someone will come in and take hold of England rugby in the way G&E have done. A turnaround could be just as dramatic.
We've wasted (another) year and we may waste a couple more if the massive red herring that is Martin Johnson takes over, but any Taff hopes of England rugby imploding are a little premature.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Catsunstein
April 8, 2008 4:58 PM
London/gbr @ Foilage re: Ashton's qualities as a selector, hear hear.
Yes, the RFU are making a pig's ear of handling his eventual sacking, but if he'd done the job right he wouldn't be sitting at home waiting for the bullet with his name on.
Ashton might have been a good coach once, but that was back in 2001. Iain Balshaw may have been a good fullback once, but that was also seven years ago. The truth is that decent chap that he is, Ashton has presided over three of the most shameful displays of rugby I have ever seen from an England team, worse even than anything Andy Robinson managed to put together. He can have no complaints about being messed about - the phrase hoist by his own petard could not be more appropriately applied.
And if you think we've been hacked off with how bad we've been since 2003, can you imagine the volcanic reaction of Johnson. Regardles sof his lack of coaching quals, one thing this man does know about is how to win a game of rugby. Hint: you pick your best 15 and get good coaches to encourage them to do what they do best.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] alandoc
April 8, 2008 5:01 PM
London/gbr Couldn't agree more. The whole thing has been handled so badly it even makes the Enlish FA seem competent and that takes some doing
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Foilage
April 8, 2008 5:07 PM
London/gbr Which 3 cats?
Obviously Ireland last year, SA in the world cup but is the second half against wales or the scotland match the other one?
Because I'd incude Italy in this 6N- the USA match in the last world cup to name another 2 that were f-ing embarrassing.
He was great between 2001-3 but the rest of that vintage has gone on, so why hasn't he?
And injuries is NOT an excuse when you refuse to pick 2 better players because your Blofeld-esque security pet is a must at number 15, or you put a league convert on the wing at the expense of other better prospects, or you pick a fly-half out of form. OR don't take enough cover for the back row on the bench. I can go on and on with this.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] francaise
April 8, 2008 5:23 PM
Aubervilliers/fra Bach! Bach! I hear not only the rustle but the clutching of straws and the mutterings of hopeful desperation. Sure we always had the players and their potential, but as has been said the WAG cement was needed to fix them and then Mr Shaun was the brickie that put up the wall. 2007/08 was a season that finally confirmed the dominance of defence in the world of rugby - the Saffers winning the Webby without setting the world alight and Wales winning the Six by conceding just two tries in the tournament, a record that might well stick around for several seasons.
Now, have the Saes got the players - in place and in favour - the coach, 'head' or otherwise (titles! titles! eh?), the system, the support, the strategies, the tactics, the nous, the guile etc and the recipe to mix all these ingredients and make it tasty and effective? Start at the top with the Blob and the answer has to be a resounding "No".
Okay the WRU lucked in by going quickly for WAG and it's paid off, but like others I do fear for the first disagreement - national technical strategy? club v country? cash? - between coach and suits and a return to infighting, briefing and backstabbing. We Welsh have to make the most of it for now as yew never know what's round the corner like. The RFU could do a lot worse than look at the WRU's gameplan in hiring WAG, but I doubt they will and therein lies the rub. I reckon they'll cock it up (haven't they already in effect?) on their own terms and in their own way.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Skinz
April 8, 2008 5:25 PM
I smell something fishy. How can Jonnyboy congratulate Bentos on paying off his student loan a full 12 minutes before the news was posted?
jonnyboy71
April 8, 2008 3:01 PM
Brighton/gbr
Bentos, congrats on paying off your student loan. I just rang up Glasgow and told them I'd died. You are truly the man I should have been.
Bentos1
April 8, 2008 3:13 PM
London/gbr
JB, one month after my 30th birthday I pay off my student loan! HUZZAH!!
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.] Bentos1
April 8, 2008 5:35 PM
London/gbr He's a clever lad, and possibly has bugged my flat.
[Offensive? Unsuitable? Report this comment.]
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| Webb |
It's being confirmed today.
As much as Ashton has been inconsistent over his tenure, the whole public show of Johnson's appointment over the past few weeks, which presumably will lead to Ashton's departure as head coach, has been pretty much shoddy, unclear and unprofessional, in my opinion. Usual service from the RFU then. |
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| ebyeeckeagle |
Ashtons record is better than Woodwards, over the same initial period.
Farce. |
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| Shoreditch CPFC |
| So Johnson is Team Manager from July. Ashton has been offered new job as Academy coach. So who is the coach? What happens between now and July? What was the point of Andrew's post world cup review where he decided to keep Ashton on? |
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| JohnA |
quote:
Originally posted by ebyeeckeagle
Ashtons record is better than Woodwards, over the same initial period.
Farce.
I hope that IRFU appoint Ashton, he's a good coach & a decent man.
I don't like Johnson after the way he insulted the President refusing to move at Lansdowne (can you imagine the indignation if Brian O'Driscoll did the same to the Queen at Twickenham?)
Also Johnson looks like Oddbod from Carry on Screaming:
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| ozeagle |
this bloke worked on a BIG SAP project with us, cost us a fortune, did f uck all, ended up sueing for much more.
joke individual
;) |
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