Hi there, especially Neil.
Just got a delivery from one of my "specialist catalogues"
Firstly the kick off stickers.
I am delighted to say that I have now got them all, without having to buy a single smartie!
The S8 sticker is Granville, the other round sticker is Shaun Derry, which is just the oval Shaun Derry from the main collection, but on a round yellow sticker with a different back.

I also have filled a few FKS gaps in my collection, but most exciting of all (for me) is an old card I (until now) never knew existed.
It is a circa 1961 colour bubblegum card of Ronnie Allen, from a manufacturer called Chix, and in his description on the back explains his history and that he plays for Palace now. It starts as "Ronnie Allen Crystal Palace" too. The photo however is a colour photo of him, but in a striped shirt, either black and white stripes, or extremely dark blue stripes. My guess it is the dark blue and white stripes of WBA, a previous club.
But it is exciting for me as I never knew the card was in existence!
If I ever find any of the really rare Kember A&BC cards, then that's how excited I'd be!

Palace 2004-05

Have got Shoot-Out x 18
Merlin Premier League 199-226
Topps Premier Stars 86-97
Merlin Kick-Off I x Badge, 10 x small ovals, 2 x small rectangular,
3 x large rectangular and 2 separate selfg-adhesive (Hughes & Derry)

Are there any more

Dorking-Eagle - which are the really rare A&BC Steve Kember

various ones called "Transparencies" which I've never seen but are listed in the A&bc cartophilic reference book
I'll dig out exact details if you want

Hi mate, can you pm me the name of the Kick Off dealer and does he also do Shoot out ones?

That Chix card you refer to is on my list. It turned up on a dealers catalogue I use price £5.50, but sadly by the time I placed my order it had gone :(

There was a Steve Kember transparancy on ebay recently, someone I've agreed not to bid against was already bidding so I didn't enter the fray, but I don't think he won it. It was part of a wider lot of these and sadly didn't have an actual picture of the SK card.

Ian, yes there are the Smarties subset, as referred to by Dave above.

Completely missed the Chix card on your list Neil, but yes it is there!

No probs Neil, I'll sort it for you tonight and pm you Wednesday. (Not at work 2morrow).

Cheers fella!

Hello Dorking Eagle - Steve Kember Transparencies (A&BC Cards)

Looks like I've got one. These appear to be transfers (approx 1.5" x 2.5" inc. surrounding paper) - instructions are "to peel off back and rub picture with ball point" Picture of Kember is copy of A&BC Orange Back No. 138

Have recently obtained a Compton's Gravy Salt card (about 1924 - Series B No. 7 of 22)) of Crystal Palace which is a drawing of a footballer heading a ball taken sideways/rear on (i.e. showing more back than front) to show club colours. However these have been portrayed as red and blue stripes!
Never known of this card before (Not on your list Neil W)

Hi Ian and Neil
I've also got that Comptons gravy salt card myself not that long ago on ebay, and have seen others in the various series listed in dealers catalogues - they sell in catalogues for £25 (VG CONDITION) £15 (G CONDITION) which is more than I paid!

Firstly Ian the 2 rare Kember "transparencies"

First one

Series = Footballers Colour Transparencies/ or Transfers (adopted title)
Size 57 x 44mm. Coloured, unnumbered series of 72. Issued in 1970. Issued with Footballers English Issue 1970/71 2nd and 3rd Series (orange backs)

subject = Steve Kember, Crystal Palace

Second One

Series = Footballers Superstars (adopted title) Sixe 63x44mm. Coloured, unnumbered series of 23. Issued in 1972. Issued with Footballers English Issue 1971/72 3rd Series (purple backs)

Subject = Steve Kember, Crystal Palace



Neil

got the details re the catalog and the shoot out cards, will PM you

Finally...
spent the whole day yesterday sorting out my cards, trying to put all the JF collectibles, matchday cards, Durlings and all the other modern "old style" cr@p into chronological order with my old ciggie cards, and realised I haven't got a single card of Peter Simpson!!!! Does anyone know if any issuer has ever done a card of him? Seems quite an oversight bearing in mind the amount of modern issues featuring pre war players!
(also wrote an article on cig cards for Eagle Eye that Tony wanted)

Looking forward to the article.

Have to say it's amazing how many of these things, not before known, seem to turn up on Ebay from time to time.

Haven't come across any Simpson cards DE, which as you say, is quite an oversight.

I just hope it gets in EE Alan. I always loved Eagle Eye, but struggled to get anything in it, as the quality of content was always very high (and presumably most of my rubbish wasn't) hence I generally did the odd piece for either OMP or Eastern Eagles (who seemed to print anything - enthusiasm from the writer being the only criteria!)
I found it difficult to balance not being to "anorakish" and boring the majority, but avoiding being silly and having no depth. Have tried to make it interesting to all, but it does ramble a bit in places!

Don't worry mate, Tony and the rest of the team (me included!!!) are very much looking forward to it!

Shall we do our own Simpson card and Palace Legends series? Front of the Echo again?

Oh and thanks for the dealer details, DE...

Am going to be updating 'the list' shortly and will make it available as a download from the Echo site, when the article appears in March!

Wouldn't complain if you did, Neil!
As I was going through my cards yesterday, from time to time I found myself delving into the odd Nigel Sands book to have a read up on the player, to see what their stats were, and as a result read about a player I'd never heard of before. Now it's my own fault because when I get a Palace history book, I tend to look at the pictures, and maybe I only notice stand out players, intersting pics of grounds, ad notable moments, but I had never realised how much of a player George Clarke was until I looked at Nigel Sands latest (much maligned) book "The men who made.."
He was featured on a not very good quality recently acquired card from the "Fosse Collection" (available from most good dealers) and it turns our he was a cracking player, without whom Peter Simpson wouldn't have scored so many goals, indeed when Clarke cleared off, Simpson thereafter netted far fewer goals.
Delving into Palace's history is one of the happy by-products of collecting that i really enjoy!

With Palace being 'unfashionable' in Div 3 South I know of only a couple of cards between the Pinnance era (1920-5) and early 1960s other than the recent JF Collectibles hence no Simpson, Clarke, Dawes etc..

There's more than you think Ian - wait till Neil does the list and you'll be amazed!

HELP !!!! I have stuck two lee hendries in the album , one in the place for gavin mccann . Can someone please tell me the sticker number of gavin mccann please

album is premier league 2005

Cheers DE, that dealer has a great selection filling in one or two of my more annoying gaps as I type!

Back to Merlin Kick Off's now, just need smarties stickers S14, s18 & S19 now - if anyone can help or recommend a dealer who has these elusive babies!!

Right, so IF we do an Echo centenary 'Unsung Heroes' collection of 10 cards next season, who/what should feature?

Peter Simpson is a definate. Any other 'gaps' that spring to mind? Johnny Byrne isn't particularly well represented, neither is Don Rogers (or strangely Iain Dowie as a player)

Thoughts?

(Indeed should I make this a separate thread?)

George Clarke and Albert Harry

Edmund Goodman?

Definitely, and Sydney Bourne as well if we're taking in non-players.

I'd suggest Charlie Woodhouse as well then (make it 15-20 cards Neil, it can be filled) :)

I'd do Edmund Goodman, but then again he wasn't a player...

Maybe one of the heroes who beat Newcastle in the FA Cup in the early 1900's?
Bill Glazier?
Clinton Morrison or Hayden Mullins? both not featured on a Palace sticker or card as far as I know

I have 3 different Johnny Byrne cards BTW - one by "Leaf", one by "Barratt" and one newly produced card sold by that dealer Goulding whateverhisnameis.

Would you sell them as a set alone in their own right (ie not have to pay for the cards to come in a frame?)

Alan Smith (Manager) - although thinking about it he probably appeared in Merlin Stickers 95?

Here's a good 'un -

Terry Long!!!!

Very high up the list in terms of appearances, yet never in anyone's "greatest XI"

Its not going to be 15-20 Alan, 10 is the very most we could afford... maybe one from each decade?

Haven't thought through the distribution yet, but definately won't be a framed issue... got burned on that one last time.

I want to get the 'collecting' element into it somehow, but haven't figured out how yet... but don't worry I will look after 'the collectors' too.

One from each decade would definitely limit you in players and staff Neil.

I definitely like to see Harry, Clarke, Simpson, Bourne, Goodman and Woodhouse, so there's six suggestions already for you.

.

Based on either no or very few prior 'card' appearances this would work for me:

05-15 Goodman
15-25 Harry
25-35 Simpson
35 -45 A. Dawes
45 - 55 Choules
55 - 65 Long
65 - 75 Rogers
75 - 85 Harkouk
85 - 95 Dowie
95 -05 Morrison

Good choice Neil, but we need George Clarke :)

Will you need info for the backs ?

If you want to make it a collectors thing, then one idea is to put
the first card on the cover of PE
the second card on the cover of the next issue of PE

make the remainder of 8 only available by mail order, or being really crafy, only available to PE subscribers, which would boost your subscriptions??

main problem would be that you'd have to produce thousands of nos 1 and 2 and offset the cost with the potential extra sales of the mag, but I don't know. I mean PE buyers buy it regardless of a card on the front

might be worth trying to offload a few sets to the various dealers - they must each have several palace collectors receiving their lists

Sorry mate, but George Clarke is already featured in a set of cards...

They will probably have to be plain backed, or at least an identical design to keep the cost reasonable.

Your marketing ideas are well taken DE, was thinking along very similar lines, although can only afford to have a card affixed to one issue (might have different cards though!).

Might also do a 'Treasure Hunt' thing with a 'subscribers only' card, one available through Palace Radio (if they are up for it), one via a donation to the BBS, ditto Kids Box...

Lots to think about in the close season, not least, who I will get to draw them. Phill Neil is good but expensive.

There is another caricature draw-er, who did an AJ caricature Tshirt on ebay - but on his website he says he charges £50 a caricature which is prohibitive

Still, if any of you have ever seen the cards by Priddy, then you might fancy drawing them yourself Neil - you couldn't do worse

Whoever did the pics for Chris Winter's book "A biased commentary" is quite good at drawing though.

Yes I've seen Priddy, but trust me mine would be worse. I have trouble drawing breath.

I think Chris Winter did those himself.

I have a few options to try out in the next weeks.

BTW - do you know if the 'Fosse Collection' is the same drawings as the 'JF sporting Collectable' postcards. All the players are the same.

Never seen the JF postcards so I'm sorry, but I don't know.

Do you have the Fosse collection cards though?

Yes, got the Fosse Collection cards, they are small cards, only slightly bigger than pinnace with a colour caricature of the subject on each one

Will scan the JF one' shortly to see if its the same picture...

'Ere tis...

Sorry about the delay - the office internet keeps "going down", so although I got the email that you had posted something on this topic, I've only just been able to view it!

That caricature of George Clarke is exactly what is on the Fosse Collection card.

If you look at a photo of George Clarke, the most striking thing about his features is his huge nose. I think its a fair caricature of him.

Cool, thanks for that. Will update the notes section of the list.

There's a new list available from me via pm in excel spreadsheet form.

Looks a bit like a Ginger-haired Iain Dowie to me...

See what you mean - maybe more like Bob Dowie (ie an even more Craggy face)

This thread is now earning me (good natured) 'anorak' abuse at games!

Anyway, I've put up a webpage of 'unknown' cards which I'd like help from those keen collectors amongst us in identifying.

The page can be accessed here: http://www.palace-echo.net/cards

Please leave comments on here or send me an e-mail through the site. I will update the page with comments received from time to time.

I think I can help with mystery number 2, as I definitely have the Kember one from those 4. I'll have a look tonight and report back tomorrow.

Since I posted that I've found a saved pic on my hard drive from an ebay item I failed on a couple of years back, which has two of those cut-outs and the file description matches my theory :lux:

Neil - Those 1968/70 DC Thomson paper pics (poor quality ones) I also have John Jackson and David Provan.

Thanks Ian, I believe that is the set.

I concur with Ian
My info says they are DC Thomson (Rover) "Famous Footballers" Issued between 1968 and 1970
I have Kember, Jackson and DAVIE Provan

Re the mystery badge - I would guess it is from some kind of series issued by The Sun, as the unusual crest used is exactly the same as that on Sun Soccerstam number 4 (the small club crest stamp)

I have now acquired 'the mystery badge' and the other two items in that Sun series: a team group and 'John Sewell - Captain' stickers.

Thanks also to Ian King, who is kindly sending me a swop of that Jackson cutout. Just need to track down Provan for the set!

Neil, thanks for the list. I think I may have an addition for you. I have a Neil Smillie sticker from the 1983/84 season. He is in Palace kit but the back of the card says that he was transferred to Albion in exchange for Gary Williams. BHA fans must have loved this in their collections. It is number 297 but I don't know what set it is. I will try to post a picture next week.

Cheers fella.

Neil, technophobe having a problem... i couldn't work out how to post the pictures here, but i have managed to put them in the gallery.

anyway, hope the pictures are of use.

The ever-reliable Neil Goulding has come up trumps again. The neil Smillie was from a set issued by Quadriga who bought out FKS, but only ever issued one series of stickers.

Hi Neil,
got a card I didn't have before, and I don't know if its on your list or not. It is a card of R Spottiswood issued c1917/1918 by F&J Smith. Series = Football Club Records

(ebay item was 6150880488)

Yes, it is. Thanks mate.

Indeed it was mentioned on that wonderful 12+ page letter you sent me when I first got interested in compiling a list! If you don't have any objections I'd like to re-use your piece for the forthcoming EE, edited together with extracts from that letter, to make a webpage on the Echo site dedicated to card collecting.

Funny enough that particular card had just turned up in new stock in one of my dealer's catalogues - I've sent an order, but am not holding out much hope...

If you can craft something worthwhile from that letter then you're a better man than me - I think it was the most rushed piece of writing ever written and when I wrote it I was simply trying to share some useful info/background about my hobby - but I'd be very flattered if you think it is worth of reproduction in any form.

To be honest, whilst I hope to give people something interesting to read and an insight into this sort of collection, a large part of me hopes that I don't start loads of new people into collecting old Palace cards!

For quite a while I've had it more or less to myself, and the last thing I could do with is loads of competition when a rare Taddy that I need appears onto the market!

This is a big problem with my other main Palace collecting interest - Palace badges, particularly enamel ones.....whilst more collectors sometimes means that more stuff gets produced, giving a bigger amount to collect, the downside is that when the rare stuff appears, I don't hardly ever get a chance because there are many more collectors than me with much deeper pockets. It is darned frustrating, depressing sometimes, to see a badge you want, be "sniped" by a fellow collector for ridiculous money (and I mean serious money) because you can feel that you are beginning to get alienated from the hobby.

That is one of the reasons I enjoy collecting the cards - it is the complete opposite of programme collecting i.e. because old Programmes are so heavily collected, it is pointless even trying to compete with the top collectors, and to be honest apart from keeping a perfect current collection and building that way, the really old/rare stuff is just unobtainable, as one or two serious collectors dominate the hobby and snap all the treasures up.


P.S. Neil - any idea what that dealer wanted for good condition cards from that Smith 1917 series? (Just wondered what they are supposed to be worth.)

PPS - I would guess that I may have benefitted (with the Smith card on ebay,) to a little bit of BBS ebay "etiquette", for which if it is the case, grateful thanks.

I'm guessing that the price of Taddy cards will make most people think twice - I can't justify paying that sort of dosh for one card, I have however picked up a couple in less-than-mint condition at an acceptable price. Mind you, I was a bit pissed the other day and went a bit mad on ebay with some max. bids for some odds and sods, but I'm still expecting to be outbid on most of them. there do seem to be some deep pockets out there these days...

Leaving aside the multiple Pinnace variations, how many cards do you reckon you need? The reason I ask is I'm trying to extend the list into a proper database with a scan/picture of each card and I still need to locate images of around 80 cards.

I didn't see it listed myself, but as you know, I certainly wouldn't bid against you for any item.

The card at the dealer is up for £12 - vgc. Will let you know if I get it, but I'm guessing its probably already gone, as my catalogue was routed from my old address.

I think in terms of modern stuff (post 1960's) can't be more than a handful of stickers/cards.

In terms of ciggie cards - I have 12/15 of the Taddy 1908 series (plus one swap which could be very useful in the future), but only 2/15 of the 1913 Taddy Series - that is the biggest gap in my collection really. Not missing much else - the Pattreiouex team group (which went on ebay and sold for a daft amount) I still need, and in terms of Pinnace, well I have all the miniature ones, but not with every back variation for each, I only have one "large" one (roughly trade card size), and three "cabinet" size ones (again a few of these went on ebay recently, but what with the price of Premiership football, and trying to go to every England game home and away to qualify for World Cup tickets, I just can't flash the cash these days - christ I can't even afford to go away by coach any more!), but essentially I have very few gaps in my collection.

If you want to borrow them for scanning/photographing, I'm happy to lend you them.

PS To find out what I'm missing, I guess I really need to sit down with your list and go through it, which is something I've never actually done (shame on me).
I also need to go through the book "Full time" which lists EVERY pre-1940 football cigarette card and is an absolute bible to anyone trying to collect all the cig cards of their football club.

Cool thanks. I've been saving pix from ebay of the ones I can't afford.

Will compile a list.

I hope that is the case, although usually in my experience(with cards on ebay) you have to pay double the recognised value of something if more than one person wants it.

ditto and thanks (although I don't hold back against anyone who has crossed me!)

Not sure how serious you are about filling the gaps in your cig card collection, but <I'm gonna regret this> did you know there is a monthly fair in London? (which I've been to a few times). It is the world centre for Roy Cropper* type anoraks! But I've seen plenty of the Palace cards which you are probably missing, and even if you set yourself a threshold, i.e. "I am not going to pay more than £5 a card", or "I am not going to spend more than £20 today", you would still come away with some good stuff. Let me know via pm if you want details, similarly if you want to arrange to scan stuff (although my mantra for everything like this at the moment is "in the close season"!


* Coronation Street "anorak"

I know what you mean. I went to one in Orpington recently, which I should imagine has many of the same dealers. They were hardly the friendliest people in the world. I would have thought the chance to get their teeth into a rank amateur like me - clutching a spreadsheet printout - would have been too good to resist.

PS don't worry, we are talking close season on the scanning. I have a house to put in order first!

You've hit the nail squarely on the head with regards to the hobby - it's a bit Royston Vasey in terms of "we don't like outsiders here" or "haven't seen you here before"!!

It's very much that a lot of the collectors have socialising problems or something, in that they all know each other and look after each other.

For example - the room in the hotel where it takes place is generally very quiet, with the odd murmour as anoraks are wading through binder after binder, looking for the missing cards from their various sets, then suddenly, piercing the silence, some nob shouts across the room "Stuart! I think I've found that missing Wills' chaffinch card!" , and then excited quiet chatter spreads across the room!

It is also like, they expect you to know what you are looking for and where to look. So if you ask for help, you have to tell them confidently of exactly what you are after.

And sometimes you could say "I'm looking for Wills' Scissors cards"
"which series?" they say instantly back
"the 1914 series of footballers" you reply
" which cards" they say straight away
"Rev Kenneth Hunt" you say, whilst fumbling through your list
instantly they reply "no I haven't got that one" (without looking)as if they know their entire stock, card by card, despite holding thousands of cards!

One of the dealers in more helpful than the rest, in that he collects Spurs cards himself, and is wiling to chat about collecting, and goive help, suggestions and advice, but even he is a bit annoying, because he keeps pulling out random cards of ex-palace players, and tries to flog you them -

i.e. "Here's a card of Ronnie Rooke, have you got that one?"
me - "no, but he's in Arsenal colours so I'm not after it"
him (all offended) "oh sorry., I thought you collected Palace players." (as if you are now not a serious collector for not buying some Arsenal card of a player who once played for Palace at some other time!

Exactly what happened to me, 'cept I was asking about Pattreouiex and probably pronounced it wrong too...

Have tried to pronounce it to these dealers myself and am never sure how to say it properly!

Have a good weekend, I'm off shortly. (Just after I've gone onto ebay to have a nose at what you are bidding on :p

Oooh very nice! Never seen two of those before! The old one is a corker and seriously rare!
I should spend less of my time on ebay hunting for badges and more time paying attention for cards.
Very best of luck.

The old one is in very poor condition and I suspect has no back at all. The other one looks great but I didn't realise the set wasn't actually football related!

Hope springs eternal - order fulfilled! :p

football 72 , looking through the football 72 album by panini was reading the comments inthe album about palace players .

Steve Kember . The schemer of the side. Kember has earned honours at schoolboy, youth and england u-23 level. Dangerous finisher, too, when he likes. Born in croydon.


Joh Sewell . Known as gentleman john for his scrupulously fair tackling .

Oh , how times have changed !!!

this is a general site for all clubs but includes palace stuff

http://cards.littleoak.com.au/index.html

He would be called Nigel, of all names!

lol

its well worth a visit , though . I am very impressed

Some useful info on that site now - its totally changed since I first found it.

Anyway the real purpose for bumping this thread is to announce a very minor milestone - today I logged the 1000th card onto the list...

Don't worry, Anorak got.

More of your help required.

I have two out of three of the Panini club crests issued between 85 and 87. Trouble is, as these have been cut from albums, I don't know which is which and thus, which one I am missing.

Here is the scan of the two I have (being foils they don't scan very well, but I hope there's enough to go on here)

As ever, all help gratefully received.

One on the right (sparkly one) is Panini Football 86, the one on the left is either Football 87 or 88. Couldn't confirm which off the top of my head without checking at home.

Cool. I have '88 so it seems I am missing '85.

Anyone out there with a swop?

No, sorry.

I just picked up a framed copy of a Gallaher cigarette card from 1925 (or so I was told). It has Robert McCracken on the picture. Anyone have any idea if this is worth anything? I've had a look on Ebay and can't see any sign of cards from that year. Or if anyone wants it, then PM me. Ta

Its not rare - an indiviudal card in good nick would go for around £1 - £3 on ebay.

Cheers Neil. I may try that then

is this 1993 panini album the only album for the first premier league season , if so what a load of rubbish it is . merlin didnt start until 94

For season 92-93 (The first season entitled FA Premier League), "Panini Football 93" was indeed the only sticker album for the season.

There was however a series of cards issued in 1992 by Topps called "Stadium Club", and Palace players featured on 5 such cards.

cheers , thought as much . the worst panini album ever imo

New merlin sticker album called fa premier league sticker quiz collection has aj as sticker number 114 , you can get the album free from wh smith this album has 230 stickers to collect

Cheers for that Stu. Did see the album in Woolies, but assumed we'd not be in it as we are no longer Premiership.
Hopefully will be able to obtain one without buying stickers
(often there are swap or sale listings on a well known internet auction site)

I should have said the normal premier league album is out in december i think the quiz album replaces the album that the stickers had gum with not a bad album 11 stickers for each club ,typical that this comes out and we get relagated

Indeed - last season's "early" album was rubbish - it was miniscule stickers, (8 tiny ones on each sticker), yet very frustrating to try and complete as there was no "send off for your last few" system

.

Cheers stu! Merlin have gone mad this year. I have the pre-season quiz book and I'm doing okay, not only will I as always collect the official proper book i notice they are also bringing out a card collection! Whatever next?

Kick off 04/05 help needed. Anyone have spares of stickers 141 michael hughes and the smartie palace sticker S8 i also have some empty albums free to anyone who wants them

For those of you interested in Palace card collecting, check out:

www.palace-echo.net/cards

For details of the latest collection!

looks like I'll have to subscribe then:rolleyes:
(not a problem really!)

Nothing worse than what Merlin do ;)

can i confirm please that subscribers get all 16 cards free ? or do they get 8 free and have to buy the other 8 . its early for me and i am very dim

8 free, buy the other 8...

Probably not the correct thread but a little help with old Programmes please?

A seaweed at work has two (sensible) nephews that are Palace fans. He wants to see if he can get hold of a Programme for the Palace home game nearest to each of their birth dates.

12th October 1978 and 5th April 1981.

Any idea which programme would be the closest in each case and where he might be able to get hold of them? Thanks. :p

10th april 78 villa league cup 3rd round 1st replay and 11th apr 81 birminghan city div 1