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-   -   1990/91 season - game by game (https://www.cpfc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=282360)

Grim Reaper 26-03-2021 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bipe (Post 15716317)
I guess the poll tax riots have some resonance with current news headlines. Anything up to half a million people there depending on what estimate you believe, it was carnage but it focussed the politicians' minds alright. The power of non-peaceful protest.

I was about to say the same. I learnt that day that rioting sometimes is the only way to get things done. It doesn't give me any joy saying that but that riot against a blatantly unfair tax had the desired effect - I forgot it had changed its name from Poll Tax to Community Charge tbh but it was still the same bad tax.

stevek 26-03-2021 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim Reaper (Post 15717711)
I was about to say the same. I learnt that day that rioting sometimes is the only way to get things done. It doesn't give me any joy saying that but that riot against a blatantly unfair tax had the desired effect - I forgot it had changed its name from Poll Tax to Community Charge tbh but it was still the same bad tax.

I may be wrong about this, but I don't think it was ever called the Poll Tax - that was a name given to it by opponents.

Bipe 26-03-2021 04:31 PM

Yes, same as the bedroom tax is actually the 'spare bedroom subsidy'

Grim Reaper 28-03-2021 10:11 PM

Good work stevek. I've learnt something new today, thirty years after the event.

This is from the Wikipedia page on Community Charge/Poll Tax.

'The term 'Poll tax' was coined as an alternative name because the tax had a passing resemblance to historical taxes levied on adults who registered to vote. However, in this case, failing to register to vote (actually a criminal offence) did not absolve that person from liability for the tax.'

palaceboy1 29-03-2021 06:38 AM

I remember that Leeds game and I could only get in the Leeds stand , so I tucked my scarf inside my jacket and when Wrighty scored the winner a fantastic header , I remember muttering “yep” under my breath while all the Leeds were looking for anyone celebrating .

Bipe 29-03-2021 07:58 AM

On 30 March 1991 we made the long journey up to Roker Park to play second bottom Sunderland. We were coming into the game on the back of three straight wins in the league, by contrast Sunderland were on a run of three straight defeats.

Inevitably then we lost 2-1, Alan Pardew notching our consolation. I didn't go to this game so cannot report back any memories of it, hazy or otherwise. However I note from Wikipedia that Sunderland's goals came in the 45th and 90th minutes, most unlike a Coppell team to twice concede in the final moments of each half. As Pardew scored it seems likely that he kept his place in the starting line up with McGoldrick again on the bench.

Sunderland would go on to lose their next three games after this one too, so a frustrating anomaly of a result which must surely have killed off any lingering hopes of reaching the top two.

Baffled Bob 2 29-03-2021 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bipe (Post 15720990)
On 30 March 1991 we made the long journey up to Roker Park to play second bottom Sunderland. We were coming into the game on the back of three straight wins in the league, by contrast Sunderland were on a run of three straight defeats.

Inevitably then we lost 2-1, Alan Pardew notching our consolation. I didn't go to this game so cannot report back any memories of it, hazy or otherwise. However I note from Wikipedia that Sunderland's goals came in the 45th and 90th minutes, most unlike a Coppell team to twice concede in the final moments of each half. As Pardew scored it seems likely that he kept his place in the starting line up with McGoldrick again on the bench.

Sunderland would go on to lose their next three games after this one too, so a frustrating anomaly of a result which must surely have killed off any lingering hopes of reaching the top two.

I have a clear memory of it. There had been a fire on the track between Newcastle and Sunderland so no trains. We had to get the local Metro and a bus.

There must have been about 25 of us on this regular bus service. I think the locals thought it was an invasion.

bubbs11 29-03-2021 08:32 AM

SUNDERLAND 2. Brady. Rush
PALACE 1. Pardew

Att: 19,704

Palace: Martyn. Humphrey. Shaw. Gray. Young. Thorn. Salako. Thomas. Bright. Wright. Pardew. Subs: McGoldrick (for Pardew). Bodin (unused)


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N Herts Eagle 29-03-2021 08:34 AM

The dangers of facing teams in a relegation fight at the end of the season. One where you expect a result and be it over confidence or the opposition just try harder the unexpected happens. I dont remember feeling devestated think by then settled for third. By then the season was catching up. If you look back we rarely rested anyone in Cup games. The long drawn out third round of the F A Cup or the run in the ZDS.

Latvian Eagle 29-03-2021 08:39 AM

I remember we had just started going down our caravan of a weekend again as my Dad and I were sat listening to this game on his car radio on Capital Gold.

Bipe 29-03-2021 08:56 AM

Arsenal have conceded a ridiculous 13 goals in 30 games...Forest enduring a poorer season than I remember, only 8 wins from 30 games so far.

Interesting little footnote from Bubbs' scrapbook about the end of Charlton's groundshare and the comments that Palace reaped £200k per annum from the arrangement. Chicken feed in the context of the modern game of course but I assume also inaccurate as Noades owned the stadium rather than Palace. Wonder what happened to the 'travel business' though? Maybe Noades was trying to entice Palace fans around the globe to spend a fortnight in Thornton Heath?

bubbs11 29-03-2021 09:51 AM

Noades must’ve known by this stage that there was a good chance that Wimbledon would end up sharing with us the following season. Guessing from his ‘I’m not bothered’ if we do or we don’t quote, that he was in the middle of negotiations. :)

Maiden Eagle 29-03-2021 04:14 PM

I'm pretty sure that the Sunderland game was Easter Saturday, so to complete a very disappointing Holiday period , Palace lost 3-1 at home to Man City on the Easter Monday.
I was at this game, but can't for the life of me, remember who scored for us - I do recall we scored when already 3 goals down, with Niall Quinn having bagged a hat trick for City.
I do remember having pulled that goal back, in the 2nd half, we laid siege to the City goal, but had left ourselves too much to do.
Disappointing and I think we all realised that the pipedream of finishing in the top 2, was probably over, but next was the Wembley trip to look forward to.
That went better:)

Latvian Eagle 29-03-2021 04:34 PM

Salako scored according to Wiki.

Mark Gardiner 29-03-2021 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 (Post 15720996)
I have a clear memory of it. There had been a fire on the track between Newcastle and Sunderland so no trains. We had to get the local Metro and a bus.

There must have been about 25 of us on this regular bus service. I think the locals thought it was an invasion.

Yes, remember the Metro & bus journey, but forgotten the reason.

Supa Al's last goal for us, and IIRC not a game we deserved anything out of. Played in the blue kit.

My one & only visit to Roker Park.

Mark Gardiner 29-03-2021 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Latvian Eagle (Post 15721364)
Salako scored according to Wiki.

Definitely Pardew.

Latvian Eagle 29-03-2021 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gardiner (Post 15721368)
Definitely Pardew.

I mean the City game mentioned in post before mine.

Mark Gardiner 29-03-2021 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Latvian Eagle (Post 15721371)
I mean the City game mentioned in post before mine.

Ah, my mistake!

Baffled Bob 2 29-03-2021 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gardiner (Post 15721367)
Yes, remember the Metro & bus journey, but forgotten the reason.

Supa Al's last goal for us, and IIRC not a game we deserved anything out of. Played in the blue kit.

My one & only visit to Roker Park.

My only visit too. How great that we find out we were on the same bus 30 years later!

Grim Reaper 29-03-2021 06:32 PM

The Salako goal was pretty good against City but it was a muted celebration due to the scoreline.

Did Niall Quinn score two of the goals within a couple of minutes of each other? I remember him being a menace and really stabbing us in the heart that day.

City themselves were having a decent season having come up with us and then ending 1990 on the same points as us. We were matching each other every step of the way for a few seasons around that time. Wouldn't mind matching them these days!

bubbs11 29-03-2021 09:54 PM

The Boro away game was the last game I missed that season.

Interesting to note at the end of the article with Thomas quoted, more confirmation that everyone in football even at this late stage, accepted that third position meant European qualification.

Bipe 30-03-2021 07:20 PM

Week ending 30 March 1991 saw three new entries into the top ten:

Let There Be Love by Simple Minds - Simple Minds had broken through into the global stadium circuit in the late 80s with their album Once Upon A Time and single Don't You Forget About Me, which were both massive hits in the US. Unlike their contemporaries U2 though they never really consolidated on the back of that and their career gradually waned thereafter (certainly in terms of volumes sold, they remained a popular live act). Anyway my older sister liked them but I didn't and I have no recollection of this song.

Sit Down by James - James had been on the circuit for a decade or so before this breakthrough smash, gradually building up a loyal live following but failing to trouble the scorers much in terms of chart success. The band's story up to this point had included drug addition, criminality, religious cults, and at one stage some of the members even resorted to participating in medical trials in order to supplement their meagre income. I always found this song rather irritating, it has a miserable sort of sub-Morrissey moroseness to it and I have a prejudice against songs where the second verse is half the length of the first, lazy songwriting (I expect someone will tell me now that the single version was edited down in length).

Secret Love by Bee Gees - the warbling brothers had enjoyed a surprise comeback number one smash a few years previously with You Win Again, this song was of a similar ilk but somewhat less successful, peaking at number 5. The Bee Gees are what they are really, there can be few people who have them top of their list of favourite acts but there is nothing to particularly dislike about them. Or I should say him these days as two of the three brothers are now deceased.

Footnote on James: I was a massive Carter USM fan around this time, they had released their second album 30 Something earlier in 1991 and were breaking through into the wider consciousness helped by the re-release of Sheriff Fatman. Somehow James got the Saturday night headliner slot at Reading 1991, largely on the back of Sit Down's unexpected success. Carter were second on the bill and there was no way I was going to miss them performing at an outdoor festival. The timing was perfect for their set, they had splashed out on an even larger than usual bank of white lights and they started as dusk was setting on the site. They nailed it and James had a tough act to follow, not helped by the fact that they'd really only had one proper hit by that point. The sizeable number of people in the crowd who were not James fans (like me) just wanted them to do the hit so we could all bugger off. Of course the bastards left it to the end of their set as you would expect, it seemed to take forever. Also appearing very low on the bill that year were a largely unknown Nirvana, who I didn't think much of. Shows what I know.

Grim Reaper 30-03-2021 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bipe (Post 15722695)
Week ending 30 March 1991 saw three new entries into the top ten:

Let There Be Love by Simple Minds - I didn't and I have no recollection of this song.

Secret Love by Bee Gees

Also appearing very low on the bill that year were a largely unknown Nirvana, who I didn't think much of. Shows what I know.

I pride myself on my 80s chart knowledge but your comments on this post highlight that by '91, I was not quite as fussed about music and almost solely devoted to the Palace. Cannot remember that Bee Gees song at all, or the Simple Minds one and I quite liked Simple Minds as well - not my favourite band but a solid 7/10 for sure.

As for Nirvana, that's fascinating - barely four months later and they were massive!

bubbs11 03-04-2021 04:41 PM

Bipe! Man City *cough* *cough* April 1st *cough* *cough*

Bipe 03-04-2021 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbs11 (Post 15728473)
Bipe! Man City *cough* *cough* April 1st *cough* *cough*

Shit, forgot about the Easter games. Busy doing dinner at the moment, will be on it later!

Mark Gardiner 03-04-2021 06:47 PM

IIRC Quinn's hat-trick was the perfect one - header, left foot, right foot.

Which proves he was as good a striker as Danny Butterfield :D

Bipe 03-04-2021 09:04 PM

So profuse and sincere apologies to one and all, I've let you down, I've let this forum down but most of all I've let myself down. It will not and cannot happen again.

I had forgotten that the Sunderland game was on the Easter Saturday and therefore we had another game just two days later, at home to Manchester City. We were looking to get the show back on the road but it wasn't to be, as already mentioned Niall Quinn was in fine form to destroy us with a well taken hat-trick. As I recall we were 3-0 down by relatively early in the second half so a real damp squib of a game, Salako giving us no more than a late consolation. Quinn always seemed to play well against us, he was a quality player in that era with good ability on the ground as well as a fearsome header of the ball due to his height. Similar traits to Mark Bright I guess. Shortly after this season he made Kevin Phillips' dreams come true with a partnership made in heaven up at Sunderland.

So anyway two defeats on the bounce now and the jib was up, we now needed to simply focus all our efforts on retaining third spot and securing that much coveted UEFA Cup slot for the following season.

bubbs11 03-04-2021 09:15 PM

PALACE 1. Salako
MAN CITY 3. Quinn 3

Att: 18,001

Palace: Martyn. Humphrey. Shaw. Gray. Young. Thorn. Salako. Thomas. Bright. Wright. Pardew. Subs: McGoldrick (for Pardew). Bodin (unused)

Man C: Coton Harper Pointon Redmond Brightwell Ward White Brennan Reid Heath Quinn

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bubbs11 04-04-2021 06:00 AM

This one hurt. I don’t remember too much about the game other than the galling feeling of watching Quinn wheel away delighted after each goal with an almost shocked look on his face. We were a big scalp in those days. Peter Reid must’ve been at least 53 by then and somehow was still able to pull the strings.

Looking back you do wonder how much our Wembley final appearance in 6 days time affected this and the Sunderland result. As a player it must be in the back of your mind not to get injured and risk missing out on such a big occasion. Which makes the previous seasons meaningless league games in the run up to the FA Cup Final all the more perplexing, especially the Wimbledon game where we literally went to war with them 10 days before the FA Cup Final!

Anyway, a poor result and the first back to back defeats that season, which was a feat in itself. Notice that we sported I think for the first time the slightly altered sponsorship on our shirts. In the next couple of days I’ll add my newspaper previews I still have of the forthcoming Zenith Data Systems Final.

N Herts Eagle 04-04-2021 06:25 AM

It was a defeat we had them that season. This one though was hard to take. Man City dominated for a long period. Quinns performance was spectacular though hard to take and I for one did not appreciate at the time. Third it is then if we dont fall away and the feeling after this game was we could well do. Seemed like we were running out of gas.

But North West London calls third time in two years. I had the tickets in a simple turn up wait in not to long a queue on what was a pleasent day. After the all night and half night the previous season it was almost civilised. Ended up buying three tickets. Had the season tickets gor a couple of friends.
Work had eased slightly and was time to relax a little so was glad of the break. However it also gave me time to think. On the way back from picking up tickets did the first look at new houses for sale just a drive round the estate. No kids or wife with me was rare chance. During the next season early on we moved house but it started then not that the wife knew that at the time.

Grim Reaper 04-04-2021 12:51 PM

Looking at that league table - 9 points clear of Leeds having played 3 games more. That 2-1 win at Elland Road was pivotal. Imagine only being 3 clear and them with 3 in hand - we would have been hard pushed to keep 3rd.

Also fascinating that we'd played 3 games more than them PLUS all those games/attempted games with Forest PLUS the ZDS run.

art malice 04-04-2021 01:34 PM

[QUOTE=bubbs11;15728737]



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Headline exposes flaw in newspaper's grammar.

bubbs11 05-04-2021 02:19 PM

Zenith Data Systems Final PREVIEW

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This article was featured in the paper on the eve of the final. Prophetic as a year later Liverpool’s new manager Graeme Souness was struck down with severe heart issues needing a triple heart by pass.

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Bipe 06-04-2021 07:37 AM

Interesting to read those articles. Although the ZDS final was obviously a less prestigious game than either the League Cup or FA Cup, there was still something of a buzz around Croydon in the week leading up to the game and as mentioned the more open sale of tickets meant most people had the opportunity to be there. We certainly turned up in greater numbers than Everton, who were more indifferent to the tournament as seasoned members of the 'big five' at the time - only a few years previously they had briefly been the dominant force in the game with two league wins, an FA Cup and a Cup Winners' Cup in the space of four seasons. Although they had gone off the boil a bit since then they were big spenders in an attempt to recapture those glories.

I remember approaching the game with a feeling of confidence, I saw us as Everton's equals and if we were on our game there was no reason to fear them at all. It was a different feeling to the FA Cup final a year previously - that was much more about the occasion and soaking up the experience, this time the focus was very much on winning a game of football.

Also love Coppell's quotes, particularly 'we are not thugs and I hope Sunday will prove it'...I will check back in later with my recollections of the game itself but for now suffice to say that we left our mark on one or two Everton players!

Mark Gardiner 06-04-2021 05:23 PM

Martin Keown's nose was introduced to Geoff Thomas' elbow.

Keown got his own back in the league game at Selhurst where he assaulted Eric Young.

art malice 06-04-2021 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gardiner (Post 15732832)
Martin Keown's nose was introduced to Geoff Thomas' elbow.

Keown got his own back in the league game at Selhurst where he assaulted Eric Young.

Then got sent off

Bipe 06-04-2021 06:28 PM

So let's get down to brass tacks then...7 April 1991, Palace 4 Everton 1 (AET)

It was a typically fresh early April day, somewhat overcast with the threat of rain in the air which would materialise during the match. Wikipedia has the attendance as 52,460 and Palace must have taken nearly two thirds of those, the 'open to all' ticketing policy providing a great opportunity for those who had missed out on the FA Cup final the previous year plus friends and family etc to enjoy the occasion.

It was a highly competitive and, as mentioned above, at times a physical encounter. Palace certainly gave no quarter and our players, roared on by the huge support, made sure their Everton counterparts knew they were in a game. I note from Wiki that the pitch had hosted an American Football match the previous day, hadn't remembered this but thinking about it now there were some faint white line markings from this on the turf.

Geoff Thomas broke the deadlock midway through the second half, heading home from a Salako corner, but Everton equalised almost immediately through recent Polish signing Robert Warzycha and the game went to extra time. This time we were not to be denied. Wright finished superbly from Martyn's long kick, Salako headed the third and them Wright again put the icing on the cake a few minutes before the finish for an ultimately convincing 4-1 win. In a nice touch Coppell brought on Garry Thompson for the final couple of minutes, he had served us well as a stand-in for the Wright and Bright double act and it was pleasing to see him as part of the squad.

Cue wild celebrations among the Palace faithful, yes it was the poor relation in terms of trophies but this felt like vindication for the traumas of a year previously and the great strides the team had made in the league this season. The players enjoyed it every bit as much as the fans, making the most of their celebration time on the pitch as the Everton end rapidly emptied. In all the commotion it was noted that the Everton goalie Neville Southall had for some reason decided not to join his team-mates in going up to accept their runners-up medals, instead deciding on some form of bizarre sit-down protest in his goalmouth. I never found out what that was all about.

At the time it still felt like this could be the start of something, with UEFA Cup qualification seemingly well within our grasp. As it turned out it was more like the end, 18 months later and we were struggling against relegation with Wright, Bright and Gray all gone, Salako badly injured and Thomas a shadow of his former glory.

But great memories nonetheless, as fans we had made a day of it and the players gave us everything they needed for a win which I still hold in great affection as the pinnacle of this team, Mickey Mouse cup or not.

Olympian2 06-04-2021 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bipe (Post 15732936)
So let's get down to brass tacks then...7 April 1991, Palace 4 Everton 1 (AET)

It was a typically fresh early April day, somewhat overcast with the threat of rain in the air which would materialise during the match. Wikipedia has the attendance as 52,460 and Palace must have taken nearly two thirds of those, the 'open to all' ticketing policy providing a great opportunity for those who had missed out on the FA Cup final the previous year plus friends and family etc to enjoy the occasion.

It was a highly competitive and, as mentioned above, at times a physical encounter. Palace certainly gave no quarter and our players, roared on by the huge support, made sure their Everton counterparts knew they were in a game. I note from Wiki that the pitch had hosted an American Football match the previous day, hadn't remembered this but thinking about it now there were some faint white line markings from this on the turf.

Geoff Thomas broke the deadlock midway through the second half, heading home from a Salako corner, but Everton equalised almost immediately through recent Polish signing Robert Warzycha and the game went to extra time. This time we were not to be denied. Wright finished superbly from Martyn's long kick, Salako headed the third and them Wright again put the icing on the cake a few minutes before the finish for an ultimately convincing 4-1 win. In a nice touch Coppell brought on Garry Thompson for the final couple of minutes, he had served us well as a stand-in for the Wright and Bright double act and it was pleasing to see him as part of the squad.

Cue wild celebrations among the Palace faithful, yes it was the poor relation in terms of trophies but this felt like vindication for the traumas of a year previously and the great strides the team had made in the league this season. The players enjoyed it every bit as much as the fans, making the most of their celebration time on the pitch as the Everton end rapidly emptied. In all the commotion it was noted that the Everton goalie Neville Southall had for some reason decided not to join his team-mates in going up to accept their runners-up medals, instead deciding on some form of bizarre sit-down protest in his goalmouth. I never found out what that was all about.

At the time it still felt like this could be the start of something, with UEFA Cup qualification seemingly well within our grasp. As it turned out it was more like the end, 18 months later and we were struggling against relegation with Wright, Bright and Gray all gone, Salako badly injured and Thomas a shadow of his former glory.

But great memories nonetheless, as fans we had made a day of it and the players gave us everything they needed for a win which I still hold in great affection as the pinnacle of this team, Mickey Mouse cup or not.

A great day. I finally got to celebrate a Palace win at Wembley with my Dad - regardless that it was 'just' the ZDS Cup, that moment will live with me forever.

Ahead of the game, I properly remember being worried about the pace of Robert Warzycha. I needn't have worried :p

Bipe 06-04-2021 08:28 PM

Expanding a little on my comment about whether this could / should have been the start of something for us...bear in mind that we ended the season above a Leeds team who would go on to win the league the following year. If you'd had to pick a combined XI at the time (i.e. not with the benefit of hindsight), then how many Leeds players would have got in? Certainly not Lukic over Martyn in goal, and not Chapman / Wallace over Wright and Bright up front. Dorigo at left back is an obvious one, he was a class act and somewhat ahead of his time as an attacking full-back who could whip in dangerous crosses. Wright and Bright would have thrived off his deliveries. At centre half it was a close call, we had Thorn and Young whereas they had a similarly physical pairing in Whyte and Fairclough. Mel Sterland at right-back was hardly an upgrade on John Humphrey even if he did chip in with regular goals.

Midfield was probably the most interesting area. The old schemer Strachan would be ahead of McGoldrick, but on the other flank Salako was probably seen as having greater potential than Speed at the time. In the middle, hindsight tells us that Batty and McAllister ultimately both achieved far more in the game than Thomas and Gray did. But back then Batty was still emerging and McAllister was spending his first season in the top flight at the age of 26 - the archetypal late developer. So how many of us back then would have been prepared to sacrifice Thomas and / or Gray for either of them? Probably not me I have to admit.

As for strength in depth, Leeds were not exactly blessed with squad members either. Attacking options were the veteran journeymen Shutt and Varadi (until Cantona briefly turned up), and other reserves such as Jim Beglin, Chris Kamara and Simon Grayson hardly set the pulses racing.

bubbs11 06-04-2021 11:07 PM

ZENITH DATA SYSTEMS FINAL

CRYSTAL PALACE 4 Thomas Wright 2. Salako
EVERTON 1 Warzycha

(After Extra Time)

Att: 52,460

Palace: Martyn Humphrey. Shaw. Gray. Young. Thorn. Salako. Thomas. Bright. Wright. Pardew. Subs: McGoldrick (for Gray). Thompson. (Young)

Everton: Southall. McDonald. Hinchcliffe. Keown. Watson. Milligan. Warzycha. McCall. Sheedy. Newell. Cottee. Subs: Nevin (Newell). Ratcliffe (for Keown).



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bubbs11 06-04-2021 11:26 PM

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bubbs11 06-04-2021 11:32 PM

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bubbs11 06-04-2021 11:54 PM

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bubbs11 06-04-2021 11:58 PM

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bubbs11 07-04-2021 12:04 AM

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N Herts Eagle 07-04-2021 12:08 AM

Its pretty much summed up by Bipe. Ended up at Wembley with the guy who had been part of my Palace adventures for 20 years. Not possible for the Cup Final.
It was not the most prestigious final but it was Wembley. Just being there far outnumbering Everton fans the game the result was all part of a great day. The sub of Gary Thompson showed that the team was a squad all pulling tigether. It was the highlight of the season as a single game. But that helped no league points at stake.
Latter the season handbook had a photo of the crowd that day. In the middle there is me and my mate. One of very few of us together at a game.
That day that moment all was right in the world both Palace and at a personal level. The challenges of life the work put in. The kids the house the job. Seemed then like Palace recovering from the disasters of TV the team of the 80s break up recovering the position in Division One and then the Cup Final. Seemed to match my own struggles through Thatchers 80s and coming out the other side.
Little then did I know the struggles ahead would be far more challenging in the next 10 years than the previous ten personally and for the club.
But that day that moment with Geoff cup aloft everything was right in the world. Celebrate wuth the team then off to sink a pint or two.

Bipe 07-04-2021 07:08 AM

Thanks N Herts, really interesting to have read on this thread how your personal journey was intertwined with Palace's fortunes over the course of this season. There was definitely a sense of fulfillment that day, even though it was only the ZDS it symbolised something about the club's changing status (or so we thought).

Onto more prosaic matters and that line from Mike Milligan has me scratching my head..."You want to see the state of Martin's face. He will be in the zoo next." Anyone??

Olympian2 07-04-2021 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bipe (Post 15733343)
Thanks N Herts, really interesting to have read on this thread how your personal journey was intertwined with Palace's fortunes over the course of this season. There was definitely a sense of fulfillment that day, even though it was only the ZDS it symbolised something about the club's changing status (or so we thought).

Onto more prosaic matters and that line from Mike Milligan has me scratching my head..."You want to see the state of Martin's face. He will be in the zoo next." Anyone??

I hadn't appreciated at the time quite how 'battered' Everton were. Good to see Keown on the receiving end for once, even though he did wreak his revenge on Ninja at Selhurst.

bubbs11 07-04-2021 08:02 AM

It was a great day and one that still lives in the memory. Not wanting to diminish it in any way, but I do look back and wish it was the League Cup instead as it would’ve been a more fitting epitaph for this great team. Despite it being a memorable event we are still Crystal Palace who haven’t won a major trophy yet. There have been a lot worse and undeserving sides in my 40+ years following football that have achieved that. At the time, as Coppell said in his post match interview, this felt like the beginning of so much more; as Bipe said, in actual fact it was the last glorious moment of our greatest team ever.

Me, my brother and friends managed to get really good seats opposite the Royal Box and level with it, so our view was fantastic. Was a very nervy 90 mins but we absolutely blew them away in extra time. Wrighty just went into another gear and that was that for Everton.

I think my strongest memory of the day remains watching Geoff and the boys climbing those famous steps to lift the trophy. Okay it was just the ZDS, and despite the celebrations among the Palace fans, you still sensed the celebrations were slightly more reserved and certainly nothing like they would’ve been 11 months before had Hughes not equalised at the death. But it was still watching a Palace captain go up and lift a cup at Wembley. I recall my brother and two life long mates (not Palace fans) just turning round and savouring my reaction as Thomas held the cup aloft - they knew I had waited a long time and been through many lows with the club to get to that moment.

Almost definitely Europe the following season, another tilt at the title and a real go at the other two major domestic cups awaited us. Just felt like we’d just stamped our intentions on the big stage and this was only the beginning...

N Herts Eagle 07-04-2021 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bipe (Post 15733343)
Thanks N Herts, really interesting to have read on this thread how your personal journey was intertwined with Palace's fortunes over the course of this season. There was definitely a sense of fulfillment that day, even though it was only the ZDS it symbolised something about the club's changing status (or so we thought).

Onto more prosaic matters and that line from Mike Milligan has me scratching my head..."You want to see the state of Martin's face. He will be in the zoo next." Anyone??

This game the feelings at Wembley that day Using the oft used term was the roller coaster ride climbing from the depths of the 80s up and up and reaching the high point. Ask me at the time it was going to level off the club cinsolidate. Maybe reach new heights. Personal life felt the same. In the same ten years leading up to that day it had been a battle through the 80s and Thatcher. I had got married gone through the loss of our first son and had three wonderful kids. Work wise from starting again after it was obvious manufacture industry was dead. I had studied and worked my way up in Accountancy to leading a small team. The house i mentioned previously we ended up buying. That was all I had dreamt about during the ten previous years 4 bedroom double garage detached. The guy i went to football with had just moved back to London everything he wanted. In a way it was the pinnacle we both had dreamed.
The next ten years for the club was a frantic ride down to the bottom. With up downs twists and turns that no one there that day would have forecast. By the end we were in administration and facing relegation to the third tier of the league. Life for me went through a complete roller coaster as well. From divorce the first heart attack surviving redundacy and recovering from it all. There were tremendous lows twists turns yet ten years latter living in the one bedroom flat in a tower block like the club I had the dreams the confidence whatever. Sure since then there has been battles as tough as any in that ten years but right now sitting here retired looking out over Poole harbour wife asleep in bedroom. I would not change a thing could not be happier. I mentioned before during those ten years the health if the guy I went to games with took a serious diwn turn by the time of adminstration he was no longer able to go.
But back to 91 that game it summed up the previous 36 years of Palace as much as my life. We had reached a pinnicale not the very top it was the ZDS but one that we were proud. Life felt the same right then.

stevek 07-04-2021 09:48 AM

I'd say the last great moment was hammering Man Utd 3-0 in the last game to finish off our magnificent third place, but otherwise I agree, Bubbs. Having been going regularly since 1984, I'd seen us get better every season - it really felt like that would continue and the sky was the limit. Yet a few months later, Wright left and it all went wrong. For me the most frustrating thing is we mistimed our best ever season - a year later, and we'd have won the league.

Bipe 07-04-2021 10:33 AM

We will come to the Man United game in a few weeks. It was certainly satisfying, but tempered by the fact that Ferguson rested a number of key players with their Cup Winners Cup final against Barcelona coming up in the week. In truth it was a virtual reserve side we were up against, they weren't bothered by the result and it didn't hurt them in any way. Unlike 12 months previously - it should have been Brighty smashing in that extra time winner against Barcelona!

bubbs11 07-04-2021 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevek (Post 15733456)
I'd say the last great moment was hammering Man Utd 3-0 in the last game to finish off our magnificent third place, but otherwise I agree, Bubbs. Having been going regularly since 1984, I'd seen us get better every season - it really felt like that would continue and the sky was the limit. Yet a few months later, Wright left and it all went wrong. For me the most frustrating thing is we mistimed our best ever season - a year later, and we'd have won the league.

This was my feeling based purely on what Coppell had done since he walked into the club. If you look at every season up to this one, we noticeably improved year on year; we took one step up the ladder.

In my naive head, I thought it was logical that judging by his management form, we’d eventually win the league. Sounds crazy now, but as you said Steve, we were literally one year premature from doing this. Just our luck too that both Liverpool and Arsenal chose to implode and plummet the following season and not this one.

Coppell at this stage just seemed head and shoulders above the other managers in the way he talked, carried himself and of course managed. He took over a club at 28 who were perennial relegation candidates to the third division, and after a hairy first few months, kept us up with room to spare. We then never finished outside the top 5 until we gained promotion in ‘89 with the squad slowly getting stronger every season. Survive relegation in the top tier after a difficult start; get to the FA Cup Final. Follow that up with third in the league...having lived through that progression, I think many of us felt as long as Coppell stayed, anything was achievable - he was our golden ticket. He was only 35 by that stage! But as the great man himself said recently, we didn’t think it at the time, but having our European place stolen from us and subsequently losing Ian Wright, that was a signal that we’d touched the glass ceiling.

N Herts Eagle 07-04-2021 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevek (Post 15733456)
I'd say the last great moment was hammering Man Utd 3-0 in the last game to finish off our magnificent third place, but otherwise I agree, Bubbs. Having been going regularly since 1984, I'd seen us get better every season - it really felt like that would continue and the sky was the limit. Yet a few months later, Wright left and it all went wrong. For me the most frustrating thing is we mistimed our best ever season - a year later, and we'd have won the league.

As said i am looking forward to that game and there is a story behind that one that still makes me either laugh or cry. But its the last two games that sum up that side. Away and Home same result in both and an unforgettable performance by Wright at Plough Lane.

Bipe 07-04-2021 11:35 AM

Not quite right Bubbs, at least if my admittedly shaky memory these days is correct.

In 1985/86 when you had to finish at least 5th to reach the play-offs we came 6th.

In 1986/87 and 1987/88 when you had to finish 6th, we came 7th.

Then in 1988/89 we came 3rd and went up.

Bipe 07-04-2021 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bipe (Post 15733528)
Not quite right Bubbs, at least if my admittedly shaky memory these days is correct.

In 1985/86 when you had to finish at least 5th to reach the play-offs we came 6th.

In 1986/87 and 1987/88 when you had to finish 6th, we came 7th.

Then in 1988/89 we came 3rd and went up.

Now I'm going to correct myself!

No play-offs in 85/86, we came 5th

Had to finish 5th in 86/87, we came 6th

Had to finish 6th in 87/88, we came 7th

I think so anyway, this is all from memory.

bubbs11 07-04-2021 01:16 PM

We’re both wrong. :)

85/86: 5th
86/87: 6th
87/88: 6th
88/89: 3rd

The two years before we went up we finished 2pts behind the final team that qualified for the play offs. In 87/88, had we won one more game that we lost, we’d have gone up automatic in 2nd. Either of the Shrewsbury defeats would’ve done us!

stevek 07-04-2021 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbs11 (Post 15733633)
We’re both wrong. :)

85/86: 5th
86/87: 6th
87/88: 6th
88/89: 3rd

The two years before we went up we finished 2pts behind the final team that qualified for the play offs. In 87/88, had we won one more game that we lost, we’d have gone up automatic in 2nd. Either of the Shrewsbury defeats would’ve done us!

That's right. Play offs started in 1986/87, as part of reducing the size of the top flight to 20 teams (though it later went back up to 22, before coming down again when we were relegated fourth bottom). In the first two years of the play offs, they included a team from the Division above trying to avoid relegation.

bubbs11 08-04-2021 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevek (Post 15733699)
That's right. Play offs started in 1986/87, as part of reducing the size of the top flight to 20 teams (though it later went back up to 22, before coming down again when we were relegated fourth bottom). In the first two years of the play offs, they included a team from the Division above trying to avoid relegation.

Glad they got rid of the play off system where a club fighting relegation in the higher division were dragged into it. It made for real explosive encounters but just felt far too cruel. Remember Chelsea losing to Boro (which of course was amusing) but a lot of trouble ensued. Also the Leeds Charlton game when the clowns scored twice late on to survive was a very heart stopping occasion.

The downside to losing for the team trying to avoid relegation just felt far too much. Losing in the play offs is gutting but ordinarily you haven’t lost anything - you just remain where you are, whereas that other system just felt too much like unfairly more high stakes and pressure for the relegation threatened side.

stevek 08-04-2021 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbs11 (Post 15734407)
Glad they got rid of the play off system where a club fighting relegation in the higher division were dragged into it. It made for real explosive encounters but just felt far too cruel. Remember Chelsea losing to Boro (which of course was amusing) but a lot of trouble ensued. Also the Leeds Charlton game when the clowns scored twice late on to survive was a very heart stopping occasion.

The downside to losing for the team trying to avoid relegation just felt far too much. Losing in the play offs is gutting but ordinarily you haven’t lost anything - you just remain where you are, whereas that other system just felt too much like unfairly more high stakes and pressure for the relegation threatened side.

I agree, though it's a pity they didn't revert to that approach next time they reduced the size of the top flight - we might have stayed up.

Polak 08-04-2021 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevek (Post 15733456)
I'd say the last great moment was hammering Man Utd 3-0 in the last game to finish off our magnificent third place

Spoiler alert. :D

Bipe 08-04-2021 09:04 AM

The play-offs are an innovation that have emphatically stood the test of time, achieving exactly what they set out to in ensuring the end of the season is more meaningful and exciting for a significantly greater number of clubs and supporters.

There was a fair amount of scepticism and in some quarters outrage at the time they were introduced. We were wedded to the idea of the final league table showing where everyone finished on merit, and the notion that a team as much as 15 points behind the one which finished third could jump the queue for promotion was regarded as heresy. But this was soon forgotten as the drama unfolded. The adjustment to exclude the team finishing in the final relegation club from the division above was another positive move, interesting to note that this would probably never have got through in the current climate with the premier league's protectionism absolutely rife.

The final 1985/86 season before the play-offs was a classic example for Palace of why they were a good thing. We finished a highly creditable 5th after the traumas of the previous few seasons, but in truth we were never really in the promotion hunt and the final couple of months of the season held little interest other than to finish as high as we could and hope to carry our good form into the following season. We eventually finished 10 points behind 3rd place Wimbledon, effectively 11 points because their goal difference was much better, they had been up near the top all year and the gap was never really that close. I vaguely remember playing them around Easter time and thinking that if we won it we might stand an outside chance of hauling them in. But we didn't and that was that.

The play-offs format still gives a sense of anticipation, even in the years we haven't been successful they are big games and it's a real focal point for the end of the season.

andyocpfc 08-04-2021 09:32 AM

Was the Man Utd 3-0 game the game we were chanting "Barcelona"? As a young 13/14 year old I have vague but great memories of that season and the ZDS final. I remember how poorly Everton had supported their team in terms of numbers and vocal support. We on the other hand were amazing that day on and off the pitch but definitely fitting of the winners. I just wish we had had camera phones in those days to capture the great moments. As others have said, it's such a shame we didn't build on that great team and it was soul destroying seeing it fall apart like it did in the following season/s.

stevek 08-04-2021 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bipe (Post 15734490)
The play-offs are an innovation that have emphatically stood the test of time, achieving exactly what they set out to in ensuring the end of the season is more meaningful and exciting for a significantly greater number of clubs and supporters.

There was a fair amount of scepticism and in some quarters outrage at the time they were introduced. We were wedded to the idea of the final league table showing where everyone finished on merit, and the notion that a team as much as 15 points behind the one which finished third could jump the queue for promotion was regarded as heresy. But this was soon forgotten as the drama unfolded. The adjustment to exclude the team finishing in the final relegation club from the division above was another positive move, interesting to note that this would probably never have got through in the current climate with the premier league's protectionism absolutely rife.

The final 1985/86 season before the play-offs was a classic example for Palace of why they were a good thing. We finished a highly creditable 5th after the traumas of the previous few seasons, but in truth we were never really in the promotion hunt and the final couple of months of the season held little interest other than to finish as high as we could and hope to carry our good form into the following season. We eventually finished 10 points behind 3rd place Wimbledon, effectively 11 points because their goal difference was much better, they had been up near the top all year and the gap was never really that close. I vaguely remember playing them around Easter time and thinking that if we won it we might stand an outside chance of hauling them in. But we didn't and that was that.

The play-offs format still gives a sense of anticipation, even in the years we haven't been successful they are big games and it's a real focal point for the end of the season.

Had we failed to go up in 1989, we might have claimed to be victims of the play-offs as we finished third (and very nearly second). But, in reality, I don't think we would have come third without the play-offs. We were mid table in February, and without the play-offs I think our season would have petered out. But the chance of sneaking into the play-offs kept our season alive, and in the end our run was good enough to not only get us into them, but almost into the automatic spots.

Bipe 08-04-2021 10:26 AM

That is a very good point - there was certainly a feel of make or break about that season, with the fear that our prized assets might move on if we ended up in the second division for yet another season. We were languishing in mid-table and well off the pace as late as March, then the amazing run started with 11 wins and 2 draws in our last 15 regular season games (inevitably, one of the two defeats was against Shrewsbury). Would the players have been as motivated to keep that run going if there were no play-offs and the prospects of getting to third place (at least in the early stages of that run) were so remote?

I also remember that around that time Ian Wright surprisingly put pen to paper on a new contract, this was seen as a real statement of intent that now was the time to get the club moving and it was a massive show of faith from him (this was back in the days when a player's contract still had some meaning!)

Latvian Eagle 08-04-2021 10:36 AM

When Geoff went up to lift the Zenith Cup I was there!!! :lux:

Garfy 08-04-2021 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Latvian Eagle (Post 15734555)
When Geoff went up to lift the Zenith Cup I was there!!! :lux:

Can I seek clarification. I've always thought the line was when Geoff went up to lift the ZDS Cup I was there. Have I been wrong for 30 years?

art malice 08-04-2021 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garfy (Post 15734570)
Can I seek clarification. I've always thought the line was when Geoff went up to lift the ZDS Cup I was there. Have I been wrong for 30 years?

Always Zenith. ZDS had one syllable too many.

Brett 08-04-2021 11:11 AM

When Geoff, went up, to lift the Full Members Cup, I was there

art malice 08-04-2021 01:11 PM

When Geoff went up to lift the non-major cup I was there

Latvian Eagle 08-04-2021 02:04 PM

I know you lot dismiss it, but as s 7 year old seeing my team lifting a trophy at Wembley, that was a big thing for me back then.

stevek 08-04-2021 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Latvian Eagle (Post 15734762)
I know you lot dismiss it, but as s 7 year old seeing my team lifting a trophy at Wembley, that was a big thing for me back then.

It was a big thing for a 21 year old, too.

One of my main memories of the day was that the first half was drab and played under a drab overcast sky. But when we came back from the concourse at the end of half time, the sun had suddenly come out and it was like a different day and a different match.

stevek 08-04-2021 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bipe (Post 15734551)
That is a very good point - there was certainly a feel of make or break about that season, with the fear that our prized assets might move on if we ended up in the second division for yet another season. We were languishing in mid-table and well off the pace as late as March, then the amazing run started with 11 wins and 2 draws in our last 15 regular season games (inevitably, one of the two defeats was against Shrewsbury). Would the players have been as motivated to keep that run going if there were no play-offs and the prospects of getting to third place (at least in the early stages of that run) were so remote?

I also remember that around that time Ian Wright surprisingly put pen to paper on a new contract, this was seen as a real statement of intent that now was the time to get the club moving and it was a massive show of faith from him (this was back in the days when a player's contract still had some meaning!)

I remember going to Barnsley away around Feb/March. They had a start striker at the time (can't remember his name) and it was billed at the match up between him and Wright. We drew 1-1 and at the time I thought any chance we had of making a promotion bid had pretty much disappeared.

singapore eagle 08-04-2021 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbs11 (Post 15733376)
It was a great day and one that still lives in the memory. Not wanting to diminish it in any way, but I do look back and wish it was the League Cup instead as it would’ve been a more fitting epitaph for this great team.

I've never thought of it like that, but this is a good point.

This was the year that Sheffield Wednesday won the League Cup from the second division. And if you look at the last four in the League Cup, or the last four in the FA Cup for that matter, the teams were no stronger than the last four in the ZDS. We just won the 'wrong' cup.

I still think this was the pinnacle of being a Palace supporter, though. Lots of good moments have followed through the years (interspersed with plenty of lows), but I think that the feeling of being on the crest of a wave was unique.

Latvian Eagle 08-04-2021 02:26 PM

It's annoying we lost to Southampton in the League Cup given we beat them in both League games that season.

Olympian2 08-04-2021 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Latvian Eagle (Post 15734762)
I know you lot dismiss it, but as s 7 year old seeing my team lifting a trophy at Wembley, that was a big thing for me back then.

I suspect there are many more of us that cherish the win rather than dismiss it

'Me & My Dad saw Palace lift a trophy at Wembley, I thought I'd never sing that'

:p

Bipe 08-04-2021 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevek (Post 15734765)
I remember going to Barnsley away around Feb/March. They had a start striker at the time (can't remember his name) and it was billed at the match up between him and Wright. We drew 1-1 and at the time I thought any chance we had of making a promotion bid had pretty much disappeared.

That Barnsley game was actually the first in that run of 15 at the end of the season that I mentioned. A hard earned point, and we followed it up with 8 wins in the next 9 to get the momentum going (the only defeat being Shrewsbury!). The Barnsley player might have been David Currie, he scored quite a few goals for them which earned him a big money move to Forest, where things didn't work out.

Shrewsbury finally went down that year, winning only 8 of their 46 games. But they still took 4 points off us.

stevek 08-04-2021 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bipe (Post 15734797)
That Barnsley game was actually the first in that run of 15 at the end of the season that I mentioned. A hard earned point, and we followed it up with 8 wins in the next 9 to get the momentum going (the only defeat being Shrewsbury!). The Barnsley player might have been David Currie, he scored quite a few goals for them which earned him a big money move to Forest, where things didn't work out.

Shrewsbury finally went down that year, winning only 8 of their 46 games. But they still took 4 points off us.

Yes, Currie was the one.

bubbs11 10-04-2021 06:43 AM

Coppell writes about this season in today’s Chelsea programme that commemorates the 30yr anniversary. One interesting bit....As the team walked up to collect the ZDS cup, Coppell turned to Noades and quietly said, ‘This is the first of many.’

:(

Bipe 10-04-2021 09:38 AM

I suppose an impartial observer would say that Coppell's managerial career peaked too early. Given that he was still only in his late 30s when he first resigned from Palace, but with a number of years of success and experience behind him, he should have been destined for the very top. Of course he had a very solid career with successful spells at other clubs, particularly Reading, but he never achieved as much as I hoped and expected he would. Maybe that ill fated spell at Manchester City put the biggest clubs off.

Anyway I forgot to update on new entries into the top ten for week ending 6 April. Although you may prefer me not to have bothered anyway - there was only one, and it was an out and out stinker:

Snap! Megamix by Snap! - A cynical ploy to cash in by recycling their small handful of hits to date into a weak compilation. A surprising number of the great British public were gullible enough to fall for it, it scraped to number 10 and then faded from view.

The following week's chart action was considerably more interesting with no fewer than six new entries, so we will come to that in a few days.

stevek 10-04-2021 11:09 AM

I can't off the top of my head think of another manager who has taken two different clubs to their highest ever (and not equal highest ever) league postion. Clough did with Derby and Forest, but Derby also won the league after he left.

art malice 10-04-2021 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbs11 (Post 15736365)
Coppell writes about this season in today’s Chelsea programme that commemorates the 30yr anniversary. One interesting bit....As the team walked up to collect the ZDS cup, Coppell turned to Noades and quietly said, ‘This is the first of many.’

:(

Noades then does a Mr Burns laugh and phones David Dein.

bubbs11 10-04-2021 12:22 PM

This is also the week that The FA announced plans for a new "super league" of eighteen clubs to replace the Football League First Division as the highest division of English football. The soon to be Premier League.

It was a plan hatched by the chairmen of the so called big 5 at the time with FA chairman Bert Millichip. They realised that there was riches to be made from TV money and sponsorship. The same thing was happening with UEFA and the new chairman Lennart Johansson. They knew that a Champions League system would mean the big clubs played more games which equalled a lot more cash. So it was important to have all the major European clubs competing; which is why Johansson, the English FA and Liverpool conspired to rescind the remaining two years on Liverpool’s European ban.

Bipe 11-04-2021 02:35 PM

On 13 April 1991 we played out a 0-0 draw at home to Aston Villa. The main thing I can remember from this was the rousing reception given to the team before kick off, as we basked in the glory of our ZDS triumph the previous week. It felt good to be behind a team which seemed to be clearly on the up (!!)

But there was still work to be done in the league in order to ensure European football the following season, on the back of two successive defeats. My memory is that we tried hard to turn things around in this game but were met with an obdurate defensive display from the visitors. Unlike when we played them at Villa Park, they were in no sort of form having taken just two points from their previous four games (including a 5-0 drubbing at champions elect Arsenal) and were slipping dangerously close to the relegation places. Indeed they would win only one of their last ten games as their season unravelled, and this game turned out to be the only point they earned in a five game run which included further thrashings 1-5 at home to Man City and 5-2 away to Leeds. It was the only clean sheet for them in their final 18 games of the season and I suppose that illustrates why we eventually fell short - seems odd to say it but we lacked firepower in addition to the main duo of Wright and Bright. We only conceded one goal more than Liverpool in second place come the end of the season, but scored 27 fewer goals. In fact in the second half of the season we averaged about a goal a game, which was nowhere near good enough to sustain any sort of title challenge.

bubbs11 11-04-2021 08:21 PM

PALACE 0
A VILLA 0

Att: 18,331

Palace: Martyn. Humphrey. Shaw. Pardew. Young. Thorn. Salako. Thomas. Bright. Wright. McGoldrick. Subs: Collymore (for McGoldrick). Bodin. (Unused)


https://s4.gifyu.com/images/FA8E7E10...7FD3069.md.jpg


https://s4.gifyu.com/images/EB6EC4AC...EFA4766.md.jpg

https://s4.gifyu.com/images/93698C3B...2D27E25.md.jpg

https://s4.gifyu.com/images/22BBCE5E...0069E7C.md.jpg

https://s4.gifyu.com/images/E3397AE1...A6FA444.md.jpg

https://s4.gifyu.com/images/764D8142...42B9C84.md.jpg

https://s4.gifyu.com/images/6BE7EB74...94E9A46.md.jpg


https://s4.gifyu.com/images/F3A8A650...66B573A.md.jpg

N Herts Eagle 11-04-2021 08:33 PM

Not a game i recall a lot about other as others have said the celebration of the Cup triumph.

bubbs11 11-04-2021 08:42 PM

Very much ‘after the Lord Mayor’s show.’ Teams really came and put up quite a defence in stifling us. It was a mark of how far we’d come but was hugely frustrating. As Bipe alluded to, although the likes of Thomas, Gray, McGoldrick and Salako chipped in with some goals, it wasn’t quite enough to push us on further. Nice to see the youth team parade the cup at half time, with two friends who I played alongside throughout childhood among the players.

The final article is a letter from the magazine ‘90 minutes’. The narrative was certainly on the way to being set in stone that we were just a bunch of thugs. Started after the 1990 Cup Final replay; egged on by the partisan Denis Law, and now fans were following the beat. It was to become a crescendo by the beginning of the following season with Everton crying to the press about our agricultural tactics, with even Vinny Jones calling us ‘Horrible bast*rds!’ Then of course came the Noades racist nonsense and the football world really had a chance to put the boot in. It really felt like we’d trod on far too many big toes and the media was unsettling us enough to put us back in our place. Unfortunately it worked. Wright said afterwards that certainly the racist furore rocked the boat enough for a club like Arsenal to come along in timely fashion and take him away.

Grim Reaper 13-04-2021 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyocpfc (Post 15734515)
Was the Man Utd 3-0 game the game we were chanting "Barcelona"?.

Embarrassed to say 'Yes' to this one. :o

I was amongst those signing this rather weak chant :o

'Barca Barcelona' #cringe

Grim Reaper 13-04-2021 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bipe (Post 15734551)
That is a very good point - there was certainly a feel of make or break about that season, with the fear that our prized assets might move on if we ended up in the second division for yet another season. We were languishing in mid-table and well off the pace as late as March, then the amazing run started with 11 wins and 2 draws in our last 15 regular season games (inevitably, one of the two defeats was against Shrewsbury). Would the players have been as motivated to keep that run going if there were no play-offs and the prospects of getting to third place (at least in the early stages of that run) were so remote?

Never underestimate the power of that dull 1-0 win v Sunderland on March 18th. When Brighty stepped up in the 72nd minute with a penalty the tension was ridiculous. Still remember the roar and relief when it went in. It honestly felt right at the moment but that we were back in business and so it proved. I had various 50p bets at school (big bucks at that time!) that we'd win 6 out 7. People thought I was insane. Turns out we won 8 out of the next 9!

I 100% 'knew' we were going up following a Palace News article that season entitled 69-79-89? From that point I was convinced in that 10 years cycle - not very scientfic I know and it didn;t help us in 99 either!!

Grim Reaper 13-04-2021 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by singapore eagle (Post 15734771)
I've never thought of it like that, but this is a good point.

This was the year that Sheffield Wednesday won the League Cup from the second division. And if you look at the last four in the League Cup, or the last four in the FA Cup for that matter, the teams were no stronger than the last four in the ZDS. We just won the 'wrong' cup.

Palace v Everton as the final was about as strong a final as the ZDS ever had.

This was a final that had seen Middlesbrough, Reading, Luton, Blackburn, a piss poor Man City and even the Clowns :clown: all in the previous 5 years.

To have the recent Champs and 2nd best team of the previous 8 years + that season's 3rd placed team involved was a high quality final.

Grim Reaper 13-04-2021 10:01 AM

As for the Villa game, it was one of the few where Ian Wright was shackled. Paul McGrath was top quality that day. In fact, noticing McGrath's class saved me getting a kicking.

I was travelling home alone and waiting at Norwood Junction when four Villa hoolies saw me all coloured up and surrounded me. I got asked that killer question - 'What did you think of the game?' One wrong answer and it wasn't going to be pretty, I knew the drill.

I honestly said 'McGrath is one of only two people to have Ian Wright in his pocket this season'

'Who's the other one?'

'Des Walker'

Ooops, wrong answer!

'Do you want to change your answer?'

'Who are the two players who've had Wright in their pocket?'

'Paul McGrath home game & Paul McGrath away game'

'Right answer'

Avoided a kicking, they laughed and the train arrived on Platform 1, where I got on but sat away from them, where I was then treated to my first ever hearing of 'No surrender' and 'Aint no black in the Union Jack'.

Charming fellows!

Grim Reaper 13-04-2021 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevek (Post 15736603)
I can't off the top of my head think of another manager who has taken two different clubs to their highest ever (and not equal highest ever) league postion. Clough did with Derby and Forest, but Derby also won the league after he left.

Been a favourite of mine for years, this manager question. You are right with Clough & Coppell. Over the years I've identified two more.

Alex Ferguson - Man United & Aberdeen

Alf Ramsey - Ipswich & England

Any others?

Peter Taylor was on course at one point when he had a claim on Gillingham and was on his way to having a claim on the Hull City one as well. Fair to say he was the best manager at each club at the time he was there but has been surpassed

Grim Reaper 13-04-2021 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbs11 (Post 15736776)
The same thing was happening with UEFA and the new chairman Lennart Johansson. They knew that a Champions League system would mean the big clubs played more games which equalled a lot more cash. So it was important to have all the major European clubs competing; which is why Johansson, the English FA and Liverpool conspired to rescind the remaining two years on Liverpool’s European ban.

It's been good research by you to piece this altogether, culminating with your excellent video last year. I'll never stop banging on about this until the day I die - Palace were absolutely robbed.

We'd have matched at least the run Liverpool mustered (easy teams up until the QF defeat to Genoa) just like we'd have reached the Cup Winners Cup Final (I won't guarantee we'd have beaten Barcelona) given the easy run United had in 1991 (Wrexham FFS!)

Latvian Eagle 13-04-2021 10:20 AM

Pesci Munkas (Who?) :confused:
Wrexham :hmph:
Montpellier
Legia Warsaw

We could have easily made that final!

Bipe 13-04-2021 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim Reaper (Post 15742009)
Been a favourite of mine for years, this manager question. You are right with Clough & Coppell. Over the years I've identified two more.



Alex Ferguson - Man United & Aberdeen



Alf Ramsey - Ipswich & England



Any others?



Peter Taylor was on course at one point when he had a claim on Gillingham and was on his way to having a claim on the Hull City one as well. Fair to say he was the best manager at each club at the time he was there but has been surpassed

Ferguson is out based on stevek's criteria - unless you are assuming that football started with the advent of the premier league in 1992?!

bubbs11 13-04-2021 11:34 AM

Searching my brain on the stevek question but can’t think of anyone.

However, if you include international football; Alf Ramsey won the league for Ipswich in 61/62 and of course the World Cup for England in ‘66. Both feats never equalled.

stevek 13-04-2021 07:01 PM

I was going for English league only - but otherwise Ferguson and Ramsey are good shouts.

As for shackling Wright, the one centre back who consistently did it was Tony Adams.

Bipe 14-04-2021 08:46 AM

So eyes down look in for the top ten movers and shakers week ending 13 April 1991:

The Whole Of The Moon by The Waterboys - this had been a minor hit first time around but it rightly found a much wider audience on re-release, getting up to number three. It epitomised the band's 'big music' style, with a Phil Spectoresque kitchen sink production and epic lyrics. There are several versions as to how and why Mike Scott composed this song. My personal favourite has always been that he intended it as a paean to Prince, but much more prosaically it's been claimed that he churned it out in half an hour to show off to his girlfriend how easy he found it to write songs. Anyway I still love this one despite hearign it millions of times.

Rescue Me by Madonna - middle of the road dance / pop, like 95% of her output there's nothing particularly memorable or impressive about it.

The Size Of A Cow by The Wonder Stuff - they had been popular on the indie circuit for a few years but like James a couple of weeks previously, this was their big breakthrough hit into the mainstream. I was never a fan - with all the fiddles and whatnot it veered much to close to Levellers territory - and I found their singer Miles Hunt pretty annoying.

Anthem by N-Joi - a nightclub staple of the era but it hasn't stood the test of time.

Deep, Deep Trouble by The Simpsons - inevitably the cashing in continued after their first song went all the way to the top. This was less successful, peaking at number 7, and more sloppily delivered.

Love And Kisses by Dannii Minogue - Dannii followed on the coat-tails of sister Kylie, with more limited success although she chalked up a few hits. In later years I woudl go on to develop a massive dad-crush on Dannii when forced to watch the X-Factor with my daughter. But her music was crap if I'm being honest with you.

Bipe 15-04-2021 10:51 AM

On 17 April 1991 we had a midweek game at home to Spurs, I assume the original fixture would have been postponed due to Spurs' run in the FA Cup - they would go on to beat Forest in the final. This was sustaining the 'Gazzamania' hype and he put in some starring performances for them during the cup run although of course it all went horribly wrong for him in the final.

As a result of this though their league form had tailed off considerably and in fact when you look at their record through the season it is really quite alarming. From 1 December onwards they would collect just three league wins and 20 points in their remaining 24 games. Pathetic relegation form to follow their incredibly strong start to the season of just one defeat in their first 14 matches. That was Spurs back in those days and I'm pleased to say that to an extent it still is, hence their failure to win the league since 1961 despite their protestations that they are one of the 'big clubs'.

Anyway, true to form Spurs succumbed in this one and we were able to keep our good run of results against them going with a 1-0 win. Eric Young notched our goal and it was another workmanlike performance to keep us comfortably in third place. I can't remember exactly when the realisation that we would be robbed of our UEFA Cup spot set in but it must have been some time around this game, maybe Bubbs could enlighten us. Certainly we all knew that the jig was up by the time we faced Liverpool at Anfield only a week later - at least that's my recollection.

N Herts Eagle 15-04-2021 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bipe (Post 15743889)
On 17 April 1991 we had a midweek game at home to Spurs, I assume the original fixture would have been postponed due to Spurs' run in the FA Cup - they would go on to beat Forest in the final. This was sustaining the 'Gazzamania' hype and he put in some starring performances for them during the cup run although of course it all went horribly wrong for him in the final.

As a result of this though their league form had tailed off considerably and in fact when you look at their record through the season it is really quite alarming. From 1 December onwards they would collect just three league wins and 20 points in their remaining 24 games. Pathetic relegation form to follow their incredibly strong start to the season of just one defeat in their first 14 matches. That was Spurs back in those days and I'm pleased to say that to an extent it still is, hence their failure to win the league since 1961 despite their protestations that they are one of the 'big clubs'.

Anyway, true to form Spurs succumbed in this one and we were able to keep our good run of results against them going with a 1-0 win. Eric Young notched our goal and it was another workmanlike performance to keep us comfortably in third place. I can't remember exactly when the realisation that we would be robbed of our UEFA Cup spot set in but it must have been some time around this game, maybe Bubbs could enlighten us. Certainly we all knew that the jig was up by the time we faced Liverpool at Anfield only a week later - at least that's my recollection.

Eric scored and i collected my winnings the next day. Another trip after work that was always tough as it was traffic jam time.
Its around this time i had a dream as clear as anything. I woke up wrote down the score.....the opponents. Will get to it the dream and what happened latter in the thread.


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