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  #1241  
Old 11-05-2021, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Grim Reaper View Post
That was literally the day after his 18th birthday. The day United beat us 3-1 it was a week short of my 19th birthday. It hit me that he already achieved more as an 18 year in one day than I'd managed in 51 weeks! What a depressing day that was
Yeah but look at him now eh?
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Old 11-05-2021, 04:45 PM
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I remember at the time thinking that maybe the tide was starting to turn, in terms of the bigger teams making themselves stronger. It seemed to me that we may as well enjoy it while it lasted because we may struggle to keep pace. We were seeing the first real wave of overseas players coming in, generally there was a definite upgrade in quality and it was the big sides who were leading the way. Kanchelskis shortly followed by Schmichael at United was a good example, of course the following season Leeds unearthed Eric Cantona and the rest is history. Within a few years Chelsea were spending big under the patronage of Matthew Harding, tempting the likes of Gullitt and Vialli their dump of a ground, and United were faced with the dilemma of which of their array of foreign stars to leave out of their champions league ties with the restriction still at 3 overseas players per team. With hindsight we never really stood a chance once the money men started pouring in, Uncle Ron was not in the same league as the sugar daddies and hard nosed corporate men.

In many ways typical Palace that we ended up getting relegated in the first premier league season although it probably wouldn't have made all that much difference had we stayed up for a couple more years. The likes of Oldham and Coventry would stick around for a bit but once they were gone, they were gone. We have done well to get back up there and stay put for as long as we have.
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Old 11-05-2021, 05:07 PM
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Onto the final top ten breakers of this season then, for week ending 11 May:

Touch Me (All Night Long) by Cathy Dennis - certainly an enticing offer for an 18 year old Bipe, young Cathy had a lithe frame which you could imagine manoeuvring itself into all sorts of gymnastic contortions. The song itself has left no impression though.

There's No Other Way by Blur - this was their debut proper hit, a fairly mediocre slice of Madchester style indie-pop. Their real breakthrough came in 1994 with the Parklife album which I thought was groundbreaking at the time.

Just for the hell of it, a few standout tracks from the rest of 1991 which I won't otherwise get the chance to waffle on about:

June: (Everything I Do) I Do It For You by Bryan Adams - here it is, number 1 for a record-breaking 16 weeks and easily the biggest selling single of the year. In reality a pretty uninspiring ballad from a mediocre film. This month also saw Rod Stewart briefly hit the top ten again with 'The Motown Song', see my earlier comments on this thread about the fact that he'd given up trying in any way to be relevant by this point, it was an abomination.

July: Always There by Incognito - a nightclub staple at the time and as such it brings back happy memories for me. Also an honourable mention this month for You Could Be Mine by Guns 'n' Roses, one of the all time top rock intros and tied in the the summer box-office smash movie Terminator 2.

August: I'm Too Sexy by Right Said Fred - massive novelty hit, harmless fun at the time, shame they have now turned out to be alt-right weirdos. This month also saw Summertime by DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince, which I stand firmly behind today as one of the great and criminally overlooked summer tracks. Plus The Prodigy with their first hit Charly, a children's safety film converted into a rave anthem.

September: Not a lot going on this month so a quick mention for Love...Thy Will Be Done by Martika because I used to fancy her.

October: What a dreadful month. We had The Scorpions with their cliched 'fall of the iron curtain' power ballad Wind of Change, Julian Lennon's horrible dirge Saltwater on which he sounded exactly like his dad at his most maudlin, earworm (not in a good way) Get Ready For This by 2 Unlimited to name but a few duds.

November - The KLF AKA The Justified Ancients Of Mu-Mu returned with the bizarre It's Grim Up North, kiddie fiddler Michael Jackson scored a huge hit with the unimpressive Black Or White, Seal cashed in with a rehash of Killer and a band called Nirvana arrived on the scene with Smells Like Teen Spirit, riff from More Than A Feeling and all.

December - The KLF were back again, this time with Tammy Wynette for Justified and Ancient which was as bonkers as it was brilliant. The woeful Simply Red returned with Stars, a song so middle of the road it should have had dotted white lines running around the grooves, and Queen hit the Christmas number one thanks to the death of Freddie Mercury with the re-released Bohemian Rhapsody which I have always just found annoying.

Last edited by Bipe; 11-05-2021 at 05:07 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 12-05-2021, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by art malice View Post
Yeah Giggs was frightening.
Am I right that he was up against a young Gareth Southgate playing out of position at right back?
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Old 12-05-2021, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Bipe View Post
Onto the final top ten breakers of this season then, for week ending 11 May:

Touch Me (All Night Long) by Cathy Dennis - certainly an enticing offer for an 18 year old Bipe, young Cathy had a lithe frame which you could imagine manoeuvring itself into all sorts of gymnastic contortions. The song itself has left no impression though.

There's No Other Way by Blur - this was their debut proper hit, a fairly mediocre slice of Madchester style indie-pop. Their real breakthrough came in 1994 with the Parklife album which I thought was groundbreaking at the time.

Just for the hell of it, a few standout tracks from the rest of 1991 which I won't otherwise get the chance to waffle on about:

June: (Everything I Do) I Do It For You by Bryan Adams - here it is, number 1 for a record-breaking 16 weeks and easily the biggest selling single of the year. In reality a pretty uninspiring ballad from a mediocre film. This month also saw Rod Stewart briefly hit the top ten again with 'The Motown Song', see my earlier comments on this thread about the fact that he'd given up trying in any way to be relevant by this point, it was an abomination.

July: Always There by Incognito - a nightclub staple at the time and as such it brings back happy memories for me. Also an honourable mention this month for You Could Be Mine by Guns 'n' Roses, one of the all time top rock intros and tied in the the summer box-office smash movie Terminator 2.

August: I'm Too Sexy by Right Said Fred - massive novelty hit, harmless fun at the time, shame they have now turned out to be alt-right weirdos. This month also saw Summertime by DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince, which I stand firmly behind today as one of the great and criminally overlooked summer tracks. Plus The Prodigy with their first hit Charly, a children's safety film converted into a rave anthem.

September: Not a lot going on this month so a quick mention for Love...Thy Will Be Done by Martika because I used to fancy her.

October: What a dreadful month. We had The Scorpions with their cliched 'fall of the iron curtain' power ballad Wind of Change, Julian Lennon's horrible dirge Saltwater on which he sounded exactly like his dad at his most maudlin, earworm (not in a good way) Get Ready For This by 2 Unlimited to name but a few duds.

November - The KLF AKA The Justified Ancients Of Mu-Mu returned with the bizarre It's Grim Up North, kiddie fiddler Michael Jackson scored a huge hit with the unimpressive Black Or White, Seal cashed in with a rehash of Killer and a band called Nirvana arrived on the scene with Smells Like Teen Spirit, riff from More Than A Feeling and all.

December - The KLF were back again, this time with Tammy Wynette for Justified and Ancient which was as bonkers as it was brilliant. The woeful Simply Red returned with Stars, a song so middle of the road it should have had dotted white lines running around the grooves, and Queen hit the Christmas number one thanks to the death of Freddie Mercury with the re-released Bohemian Rhapsody which I have always just found annoying.
Fair comments in the main here. Cathy Dennis was so hot it was untrue Enjoyed the song....although mainly when watching the video on MTV rather than radio!

KLF - such a crazy mix of songs in that period. Always original and it's a shame they get largely forgotten. Never realised Grim Up North was a single - I only knew of that song as my brother had their album. Somewhere on the BBS from the early 00s, I did a thread based on that song to try and see if we had a supporter/BBS member from every town mentioned in it. Don't think we got them all but we had a good go.

There's No Other Way - absolutely mad for it at the time. Proper loved that song although on reflection it wasn't as good as what was to come from them later in the decade.

Great round up, as ever, Bipe
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  #1246  
Old 12-05-2021, 08:36 AM
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Am I right that he was up against a young Gareth Southgate playing out of position at right back?
If so, it may have scarred him as much as his Euro 96 penalty miss
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Old 14-05-2021, 05:50 AM
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Thank you to all those who shared memories of the greatest of all seasons, which have stayed with me. In my mind neither I or the players have put on 30 years. I'd started going regularly from the liverpool game, even venturing as far as plough lane, and although it never felt that there was a realistic chance of winning the title the continued rise over the last few years meant that you expected we could beat anyone (apart from arsenal) and made winning the cup a real possibility. I think not having instant access 24/7 meant you had to put in the effort to see the greatest Palace team. Saturday afternoons in front of teletext with radio 5 on trying to get news from a game up north or calling clubcall to find out who was fit (painfully slowly)

Also thanks for the chart memories, which have added to the nostalgia. I didn't have the money back then so tough decisions were needed to finance trips to Selhurst. Recording mates music tape to tape, going halves on a video rental from the corner shop and forget those naf naf jeans.
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  #1248  
Old 14-05-2021, 06:15 AM
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Cathy Dennis was so hot it was untrue
Arguably her biggest (worldwide) success was a song she wrote for someone else: Can't Get You Out Of My Head.
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Old 14-05-2021, 07:02 AM
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I remember at the time thinking that maybe the tide was starting to turn, in terms of the bigger teams making themselves stronger. It seemed to me that we may as well enjoy it while it lasted because we may struggle to keep pace. We were seeing the first real wave of overseas players coming in, generally there was a definite upgrade in quality and it was the big sides who were leading the way. Kanchelskis shortly followed by Schmichael at United was a good example, of course the following season Leeds unearthed Eric Cantona and the rest is history. Within a few years Chelsea were spending big under the patronage of Matthew Harding, tempting the likes of Gullitt and Vialli their dump of a ground, and United were faced with the dilemma of which of their array of foreign stars to leave out of their champions league ties with the restriction still at 3 overseas players per team. With hindsight we never really stood a chance once the money men started pouring in, Uncle Ron was not in the same league as the sugar daddies and hard nosed corporate men.

In many ways typical Palace that we ended up getting relegated in the first premier league season although it probably wouldn't have made all that much difference had we stayed up for a couple more years. The likes of Oldham and Coventry would stick around for a bit but once they were gone, they were gone. We have done well to get back up there and stay put for as long as we have.
We were one of the last of the smaller clubs to break into the top three. Norwich managed it in 1993 and then Blackburn won it in 1995 with a fair amount of money behind them (who knows what we could have achieved if we had signed Shearer). But after that nothing until Leicesterís triumph in 2016. I do think football has lost something when even for a smaller Premier League club like ourselves the top three is something we can only dream about now.
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Old 14-05-2021, 09:10 AM
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We were one of the last of the smaller clubs to break into the top three. Norwich managed it in 1993 and then Blackburn won it in 1995 with a fair amount of money behind them (who knows what we could have achieved if we had signed Shearer). But after that nothing until Leicesterís triumph in 2016. I do think football has lost something when even for a smaller Premier League club like ourselves the top three is something we can only dream about now.
Agree - if you look at the Football League Championship, a successful defence of the title itself didn't occur from the late 1950s to Liverpool in the mid-1970s.

IIRC one season early 70s the top 7 was completely (or 6 out of 7) different to the previous season.

Change started when the 25% gate money to the away team was stopped. TV money then made the gap far wider.
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Old 14-05-2021, 09:18 AM
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Am I right that he was up against a young Gareth Southgate playing out of position at right back?
Wasn't right back originally his position? I know that's where he played when he first broke into the team, and I seem to remember something in his autobiography about how he felt a rivalry with John Pemberton.
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Old 14-05-2021, 09:26 AM
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Yep, pretty sure Gareth was almost always at right back whenever I watched him playing for the Youth and reserve teams around that time.
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Old 16-05-2021, 03:57 AM
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Wasn't right back originally his position? I know that's where he played when he first broke into the team, and I seem to remember something in his autobiography about how he felt a rivalry with John Pemberton.
Gareth made his first start against Liverpool at Anfield in this 90/91 season as a centre back. His next start was the following season in that fateful Leeds match where Salako got his horrific injury, and he played centre back again.

But then for the rest of that first half of the 91/92 season, Southgate regularly started as right back (with Lee Sinnott left back). After the new year he then played a few months in midfield, but ended the season at right back again.

Think the following season he played in the midfield.

Even though I mustíve seen him a few times at reserve and youth level, I canít recall where he played.
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Old 16-05-2021, 06:41 AM
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If so, it may have scarred him as much as his Euro 96 penalty miss
My memory is thinking that, although Giggs took him apart, he did better against him than many more experienced full backs at the time.
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Old 16-05-2021, 09:02 AM
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An attempt then to round off this interesting and rambling thread in some way, with a 'what happened next?' review.

First of all the fortunes of the club itself...as mentioned previously, people tend to forget that the 1991/92 season started almost as well as the prior campaign. We took 27 points from our first 15 games and were again riding high in the league, before a dire run of just 2 wins in 18 games saw us crash back down to earth. We rallied with 15 points from our last 9 games including another win against Liverpool to do the league double over them, finishing 10th in the table with 57 points. We were only 7 points behind Liverpool in 6th place, so on the face of it another decent campaign all told but the warning signs were there with 61 goals conceded. The departures of Wright and later Gray saw the loss of two key men and the squad was in transition with younger players starting to break through but perhaps not quite as ready as they needed to be to keep carrying the club forward. Transfer dealings during the season saw a net profit of c.£2m, thanks in the main to Wright's £2.5m move to Arsenal and Gray's £700k departure to Spurs. We took a £800k hit on Gabbiadini and moved him on quickly, leaving poor old Bright as the only experienced striker in the squad. Of course this was the beginning of the end and the following season we were relegated to enter our period as a yo-yo club.

As for the players who got us to 3rd place in 1990/91:

Nigel Martyn - stayed loyal to Palace when we were relegated in 1993 but quite rightly moved on when the same thing happened in 1995, playing nearly 300 games for Leeds and a further 100 for Everton before finally retiring with 846 career appearances under his belt. Played 23 games for England but never established himself as number 1. Deservedly recognised as one of our greatest ever keepers and the benchmark against which all successors have been measured.

John Humphrey - Stayed at Palace until 1995 and remained a dependable and consistent presence during a period of turmoil. The poor sod ended his career at Brighton but we can forgive him that, he did well for Palace.

Richard Shaw - his versatility continued to be an asset until the 1995/96 season, when he accepted the chance to return to the premier league with Coventry. He became something of a legend there with nearly 400 appearances before seeing out his career at lowly Millwall (there is something of a trend developing here by the way). In the wider public consciousness he will forever be associated with the Cantona incident, having been unfairly characterised in the press as a hatchet man who was fouling the preening ninny all night until he finally snapped.

Gareth Southgate - bit part player in this season but rapidly progress to become club captain, leading the team to promotion in 1993/94 with some driving performances from midfield. We all know what he's up to now.

Andy Thorn - he had been a key Coppell signing the previous year, bringing knowhow and solidity to a shaky defence. Formed a formidable partnership with his old Wimbledon mate Eric Young, those two took no prisoners. He had always been 'big boned' and as he got older this translated into weight issues, his career petering out in his early 30s at Tranmere. Popped up as Coventry manager around a decade ago when he had completed the transition to obesity. I always liked him though, he seldom made big mistakes and was a rock at the back.

Paul Bodin - a signing we had high hopes for but which never worked out, he seemed to struggle to settle and maybe like Collymore it was a case of someone from the sticks being a little daunted by the aggressive south London vibe in the dressing room. Soon scuttled off back to his beloved Swindon and gained notoriety as the player who missed a crucial penalty for Wales in their shit or bust 1994 WC qualifier against Romania.

Eric Young - See the comments on Thorn above, Young was always the slightly more cultured of the two and was an imposing presence at set pieces too. Although he was already 30 when he joined us his natural fitness (unlike Thorn) stood him in good stead and he played nearly 200 games across 5 seasons.

Phil Barber - I believe he was an Alan Mullery signing? Anyway one of the players who helped us transition from those dark times to a brighter future under Coppell, to start with he was one of the better players but as the quality grew around him he became more of a reliable tryer who gave everything for the team. 1990/91 was his last hurrah for Palace, he moved on the Millwall in the summer where he made over 100 appearances. Another one who's career faded away relatively young, by his early 30s he was back in non-league football.

Andy Gray - as mentioned right back towards the start of this thread I loved Gray and I still do, for me possibly one of the most 'Palace' players we've ever had in attitude and approach. As is well documented, midway through the 91/92 season he picked up an England cap and soon after made a big money move to Spurs. His time there was a bit of a disaster if truth be told so he blew what should have been the best years of his career. However, there followed short spells at Marbella, Falkirk and Bury where he is fondly remembered before he saw out his time with a few appearances at Millwall (I'm starting to think that 'you must end your career at Millwall' might have been a standard contract clause inserted by Ron Noades around this time). Since then Gray has become something of a forgotten man but it's been nice to see him interacting with Palace fans on Twitter in recent years, and tuning up for charity matches at Selhurst.

Alan Pardew - like Barber, Pardew started to find himself moving down the pecking order during 1990/91 although he still made a good few appearances and played a starring role in our ZDS games. Always something of a Coppell favourite due to his workrate. He moved to Charlton midway through 1991/92 where he remodelled himself as a goalscoring midfielder, notching 26 goals in 124 appearances. Briefly turned up at Spurs for a few Intertoto Cup games before ending his playing career at Barnet where he reverted to type with 0 goals in 79 appearances. His managerial exploits have of course been well documented and along with Wright and Southgate he's built the highest profile in the modern game of any of our 1990/91 squad, something of a surprise to those of us who used to watch him plod around the midfield.

John Salako - this was his breakthrough season, topped off by a successful summer tour of the Antipodes with England. Everything looked set up for him to reach the highest level before that fateful game against Leeds early in the 91/92 season when he suffered his awful injury. He was never quite the same player but he worked hard to get back and help Palace to promotion in 1994. Middling spells at Coventry and Charlton followed, then in his 30s he enjoyed an Indian summer at Reading. Has done bits and pieces of media work ever since and of course joined the Pardew old boys' revolution at Palace.

Geoff Thomas - another one whose career peaked in this season when his driving performances rightly gained international recognition. Seemed badly affected by transfer speculation early in the 92/93 season and his form went right off the boil as we slid towards relegation. Joined Wolves where his career was pretty much prematurely ended by a horrific injury, although he went on to play a few games at Forest, Barnsley and Crewe. Ended up with 9 England caps, never on the losing side. His footballing career has since been overshadowed by his battle against leukaemia and subsequently, the millions of pounds he has raised for related charities. Someone we can be proud to have represented our club.

Glyn Hodges - A disastrous signing, made only a handful of appearances before Coppell cut his losses and flogged him to Sheffield United where he immediately became a key man. Ended his career with well over 500 appearances and nearly 100 goals so he clearly wasn't a dud, just the wrong man in the wrong place at the wrong time as far as we were concerned.

Eddie McGoldrick - Palace certainly enjoyed his best years and he remained an important player through to our relegation in 1993. Earned himself a big move to Arsenal but it didn't work out for him there, similarly his appearances were limited at Manchester City. Gained 15 caps for the Republic of Ireland. Lack of goalscoring threat was an achilles heel for him, ending his career with a feeble 22 goals from nearly 400 appearances.

Mark Bright - pound for pound one of our best ever signings, his career was going nowhere until Coppell teamed him up with Wright. Carried the attack manfully in 1991/92 after Wright left, then got a move to Sheffield Wednesday early the following season where he continued to both score and provide goals. He remains Wednesday's top premier league scorer. Saw out his career at Millwall and Charlton, where he played in that mad 4-4 play-off final against Sunderland. Well known these days as Steve Parish's right hand man, he has been a loyal servant to Palace on and off for nearly 40 years now and deserves nothing less than complete respect for his contribution to the club.

Stan Collymore - Looked a bit out of his depth in the Palace environment so Coppell sold him to Southend where he immediately started banging in spectacular goals from all angles, earning a move to Forest and then Liverpool where he wasted his talent through immersion in their somewhat toxic 'spice boys' culture of the time. Moved around the clubs after than but failed to make the most of his ability, only totting up around 300 career appearances. Now operates as a sporting shock-jock and media columnist.

Garry Thompson - only played a handful of times for Palace as the stand-in for Wright or Bright, but had a fantastic attitude and always gave everything when called on. Kept on going until his late 30s, ending with over 500 appearances and nearly 150 goals from a good honest career. Low profile these days but seems to be friendly with Andy Gray, who also played with him at Villa.

Ian Wright - seems appropriate to end with him, the one player above all others who was the catalyst for our transition from second division also-rans to the third best team in the country. Moved on to Arsenal early the following season where he enjoyed a phenomenal goalscoring record, becoming their all-time top scorer despite being nearly 28 already when he signed. Scored 9 goals in 33 games for England, again like Martyn he never established himself but still a fantastic career for someone whose life prospects seemed limited in his early 20s.

As for me - 1990/91 was the final season in which i would follow Palace with anything like regularity. I made the decision late on that season to focus on playing rather than watching so that was my Saturdays largely booked for the next 20 years. In 2000 we moved to Lincolnshire, further limiting options to attend Selhurst Park once my playing days had come to an end although we are members and get to a handful of home and away games every year. There were a couple of last hurrahs for me in 1991/92, the first being the early season midweek win up at Villa Park which as one of Wright's final games for us and a typical strong Palace performance of the time, the second the win at Liverpool which I combined with a weekend visit to a friend at Uni up there. Great fun day out with the 'Royal Ascot' themed hats and Marco Gabbiadini's finest hour for Palace.

All in all then, I ended on something of a high given that we have never come close to emulating the feats of that 1990/91 team. Some fantastic memories which I have enjoyed sharing on this thread as the season progressed. Thanks to all contributors and particularly to Bubbs whose scrapbook entries have added superb colour to my random musings.
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Old 16-05-2021, 09:52 AM
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Nigel Martyn - stayed loyal to Palace when we were relegated in 1993 but quite rightly moved on when the same thing happened in 1995
Not quite. He stayed with us again after the 95 relegation. His last game for us was in the play off final defeat to Leicester in 96.
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Old 16-05-2021, 10:08 AM
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Not quite. He stayed with us again after the 95 relegation. His last game for us was in the play off final defeat to Leicester in 96.
My apologies, you are quite right.
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Old 16-05-2021, 10:12 AM
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An excellent summary of the team that finished 3rd - thanks!
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Old 16-05-2021, 01:15 PM
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Eddie McGoldrick still has links with Palace youth teams. There is also a Facebook video of him starting a Palace song in a pub. The bloke is a Palace legend!
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Old 17-05-2021, 10:05 AM
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Excellent thread. It brought back so many memories of matches I attended at the time as a 22 year old. Great times!
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