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  #8561  
Old 17-03-2021, 01:05 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is online now
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Originally Posted by cantspell View Post
Cockneyrebel - Corbyn had his chance - he was shit. No opposition against Brexit - never around when there was a crucial vote on the subject. Had henchmen like Milne helping call the shots.

Had opportunities to join forces with other parties to oppose the Government at various times and was unable to think strategically like a leader.

The worst thing that happened for labour was when he was voted in as leader.
Corbyn is finished, gone. The left of Labour is finished. It's not me blaming them for Starmer being so shit. And yes Milne was and is awful.
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  #8562  
Old 17-03-2021, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Credibility? Labour did worse in 2010 and 2015 than in 2017. Blaming the left is farcical.

It would be like Boris Johnson blaming Theresa May if things had gone wrong for him.
Interesting use of stats. A hung parliament in 2010 and tiny majorities for the Tories in 2015 and 2017. When it came to 2019, and unlike 2010 and 2015, it was obviously a two party fight - and Corbyn managed to hand the Tories an 80 set majority by not managing to attract the middle ground voter
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  #8563  
Old 17-03-2021, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by weltklasse View Post
starmer type leaders? i mean you make crass generalisations and expect to be taken seriously? its not as if you don't post on a pretty much daily basis how useless you think he is. I know you are upset but at least try to offer a plausabile alternative (i.e. not clive lewis lol)
Starmer was a massive loss for those that wanted their special kind of politics that only comes around once in a blue moon.

It's now moving back to what real people want rather than membership politics with full-time political agitators who spout hot and cold depending on which way the wind is blowing.

There is no alternative, the same as there was no alternative for those swing voters that would rather vote Tory than vote for that "special" kind of politics.
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  #8564  
Old 17-03-2021, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Philipw View Post
Interesting use of stats. A hung parliament in 2010 and tiny majorities for the Tories in 2015 and 2017. When it came to 2019, and unlike 2010 and 2015, it was obviously a two party fight - and Corbyn managed to hand the Tories an 80 set majority by not managing to attract the middle ground voter
Yes he lost badly but my point is that centrism lost in 2010 and 2015 and did worse than the left in 2017. So it’s not clear cut.
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  #8565  
Old 17-03-2021, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
Starmer was a massive loss for those that wanted their special kind of politics that only comes around once in a blue moon.

It's now moving back to what real people want rather than membership politics with full-time political agitators who spout hot and cold depending on which way the wind is blowing.

There is no alternative, the same as there was no alternative for those swing voters that would rather vote Tory than vote for that "special" kind of politics.
What real people want? What like 10 and 13% behind in the polls and labour doing worse than at this stage when corbyn was leader. Your mob aren’t doing too well.
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  #8566  
Old 17-03-2021, 02:12 PM
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it grates when someone who claims he is into politics and is active derides those with differing views as "mobs". Just putting that out there.
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  #8567  
Old 17-03-2021, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by weltklasse View Post
it grates when someone who claims he is into politics and is active derides those with differing views as "mobs". Just putting that out there.
That sums it up really, we all want a kinder caring society, and most want to see a united Labour fighting the Tories. But until those minority irritants are left in the past who at every opportunity negatively attack their own party, it's going nowhere either way.

Split, start your own party or stay and help Labour become the next Gov't, and maybe you may at least get some of what you want.
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  #8568  
Old 17-03-2021, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
Palace were favourites to win in Hartlepool and lost twice. My prediction. Lots of goodies will be showered on Teesside and south County Durham areas in the next couple of months.
One day later there is a commitment to spend money on carbon capture in the Teeside area.
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  #8569  
Old 17-03-2021, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Yes he lost badly but my point is that centrism lost in 2010 and 2015 and did worse than the left in 2017. So it’s not clear cut.
agreed. But had starmer been in charge in 2019 and been willing to give a clear 'leave' steer, I reckon he would have had a decent chance of getting in. The tories were in tatters at the time.
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  #8570  
Old 17-03-2021, 03:42 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is online now
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Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
That sums it up really, we all want a kinder caring society, and most want to see a united Labour fighting the Tories. But until those minority irritants are left in the past who at every opportunity negatively attack their own party, it's going nowhere either way.

Split, start your own party or stay and help Labour become the next Gov't, and maybe you may at least get some of what you want.
You want a kinder caring society? Yet you backed New Labour who brought in the hostile environment policy and put asylum seekers in camps. You now support a leader who has reports about islamophobia and black MPs writing to him about racism, all things you don't really care about as it's your man at the helm. Sums it up really.

Also as for attacking their own party, you did it for years lol.
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  #8571  
Old 17-03-2021, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Philipw View Post
agreed. But had starmer been in charge in 2019 and been willing to give a clear 'leave' steer, I reckon he would have had a decent chance of getting in. The tories were in tatters at the time.
Starmer was the one who headed up and led the useless Brexit strategy under Corbyn, and insisted on the stance that the Labour Party took.

I suspect that left to his own devices Corbyn would have supported a Lexit strategy.
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  #8572  
Old 17-03-2021, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe85 View Post
I imagine the press/Tories will use Corbyn as a stick to beat Starmer and his successor with for a quite a few years to come.
You do not need the Press or the Tories to do that on here.

A fine job is being done every day
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  #8573  
Old 17-03-2021, 04:15 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is online now
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Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
You do not need the Press or the Tories to do that on here.

A fine job is being done every day
What like you did with labour for years? Hypocrite.
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  #8574  
Old 17-03-2021, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Starmer was the one who headed up and led the useless Brexit strategy under Corbyn, and insisted on the stance that the Labour Party took.

I suspect that left to his own devices Corbyn would have supported a Lexit strategy.
I see we've gone back to the old leader of the opposition not being blamed for failing to lead...
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  #8575  
Old 17-03-2021, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
You want a kinder caring society? Yet you backed New Labour who brought in the hostile environment policy and put asylum seekers in camps. You now support a leader who has reports about islamophobia and black MPs writing to him about racism, all things you don't really care about as it's your man at the helm. Sums it up really.

Also as for attacking their own party, you did it for years lol.
I mean this post does nothing for you CR it just makes you look petty and unwilling to accept that in fighting will not bode well for the Labour party. its just a long list of moans rather the a substantive discussion.
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  #8576  
Old 17-03-2021, 04:57 PM
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I see we've gone back to the old leader of the opposition not being blamed for failing to lead...
Of course he was. Corbyn was crap on Brexit but it was a policy Starmer fully backed.
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  #8577  
Old 17-03-2021, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by weltklasse View Post
it grates when someone who claims he is into politics and is active derides those with differing views as "mobs". Just putting that out there.
Totally agree.

Many people, me included, who voted for the Tories, would like nothing more than a strong opposition holding the govt to account.

Left wingers chucking ‘your mob’, ‘own your shit’, ‘you voted for the wankers’ etc etc etc ad infinitum, does nothing to try and help change people’s views. Very often it just entrenches them further.

A lost opportunity, if you will.
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  #8578  
Old 17-03-2021, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
You want a kinder caring society? Yet you backed New Labour who brought in the hostile environment policy and put asylum seekers in camps. You now support a leader who has reports about islamophobia and black MPs writing to him about racism, all things you don't really care about as it's your man at the helm. Sums it up really.

Also as for attacking their own party, you did it for years lol.
Personally I backed New Labour because I lived through the Thatcher years and then the Major years and I seriously doubted that I'd ever see a government that wasn't Tory. I continued to back New Labour because the alternatives were William Hague followed by Ian Duncan Smith followed by Michael Howard. It was a simple binary choice and however much you hate 'centrism' the vision offer by Blair and then Brown was head and shoulders above what the other three offered. It may not have been perfect, and Blair's behaviour over Iraq was indefensible but until you come up with a left wing leader who looks like he or she could win as many seats as Blair did you need to stop going on about the lack of success of the centre. I could also argue that the 2010 coalition was also 'centrist', but it was the right side of the centre rather than the left side. For all it's faults I'd rather have the coalition in power at the moment with Clegg and Cameron than Johnson and his cronies and I'm afraid Corbyn and his version of Labour have to take some responsibility in enabling that.
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  #8579  
Old 17-03-2021, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Worksop Palace View Post
Totally agree.

Many people, me included, who voted for the Tories, would like nothing more than a strong opposition holding the govt to account.

Left wingers chucking ‘your mob’, ‘own your shit’, ‘you voted for the wankers’ etc etc etc ad infinitum, does nothing to try and help change people’s views. Very often it just entrenches them further.

A lost opportunity, if you will.
Have you seen the abuse thrown at the left by Les and others. Lovely things like “bollocks for brains”, as individual insults to. You and welt frequently throw around horrible insults too. And you’ve got the audacity to complain about a tongue in cheek “mob”.
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  #8580  
Old 17-03-2021, 06:53 PM
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I see we've gone back to the old leader of the opposition not being blamed for failing to lead...
Is the current leader leading?
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