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  #10361  
Old 09-05-2021, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Philipw View Post
Came across him when he was health secretary under Brown (i think). Was a bit ‘green’ but, to be fair, health is a tough post. Surprised you like him as he wasnt that far left then (although was left of blair) and seems to have moved further towards the centre? But he is a heavyweight that the party needs and, unlike khan (in my opinion) is wasted as a mayor
Looks like he wears eyeliner, so would work well with the LGBTQXYZ+ too.
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  #10362  
Old 09-05-2021, 06:59 AM
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This analysis says Thursday's vote was a swing to Labour... let the bickering commence (or continue, as its been going on for years )

From data collected and analysed by the BBC (1247 'key wards' across the country), we can calculate an implied swing since the 2019 General Election.

That figure is a 3-point swing toward Labour.

If applied uniformly across the GB, that would be around:

Con: 340 seats
Lab: 221

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The swing is differential across different regions of the country.

For example, there has been a swing to Labour of around 5 points in the West Midlands, but there was a swing *to the Conservatives* of around 1 point in the North West.

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  #10363  
Old 09-05-2021, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
Watching the interviews last night with members of the public from Hartlepool, they seemed to believe that all their problems with hospital closures and job losses, etc, were down to Labour, who haven't been in power for eleven years. With that kind of willful ignorance, Johnson got a virtual free run, and Starmer and his candidate, never stood a chance. All the re-shuffling of the shadow cabinet, is not going to change that ignorance on the ground.
I did hear a voter from Hartlepool on R5L, on Friday morning, talking quite articulately about the result and her take was, that the previous Labour MPs, in the area, hadn't really engaged locally, with the people of Hartlepool. Also the local Mayor of the Teesside area (although Tory) was very popular and this could have influenced the Hartlepool voters.

Obviously that was just one person's opinion and despite the likes of that Weasel, Eddieskyclad kept banging on about that Labour had taken the North for granted and even taking into account that the local MP, may not have been very good, I don't how the Labour party, can be blamed for Government policy, over the last 10 years ?
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  #10364  
Old 09-05-2021, 07:11 AM
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Good piece on Ben Houchen

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  #10365  
Old 09-05-2021, 07:12 AM
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the previous Labour MPs, in the area, hadn't really engaged locally, with the people of Hartlepool.
What does this actually mean, I wonder? Drawing the raffle at school fetes, turning on the Christmas lights, that sort of thing?

Surely only a small minority of us ever write to out MPs. And with the death of local newspapers it's got to be difficult for any local politician to get coverage for anything they do anyway. The number of people following their local representatives on social media has got to be much less than those who might've read about them twenty years ago, when local papers were still a thing.
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  #10366  
Old 09-05-2021, 07:15 AM
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Sergio Aguero takes full responsibility for his panenka miss.

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Rumours are he’s about to sack Gabriel Jesus
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  #10367  
Old 09-05-2021, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
Watching the interviews last night with members of the public from Hartlepool, they seemed to believe that all their problems with hospital closures and job losses, etc, were down to Labour, who haven't been in power for eleven years. With that kind of willful ignorance, Johnson got a virtual free run, and Starmer and his candidate, never stood a chance. All the re-shuffling of the shadow cabinet, is not going to change that ignorance on the ground.
Except if you Google it the A and E closure at Hartlepool back in 2010 has been blamed on Tory and Labour particular. Its not new been fought over ever since.
Jobs the investment around Hartlepool if not in the town itself. When something is done after years of nothing the electorate will remember.
The lend the Tory the vote may well become the new Scotland. The vote never returns to Labour.
The wilful ignorance may apply in reverse the Labour Party has failed to understand the concerns of the core voters for too long. Taken for granted ignored and the belittled.. They have walked away slowly at first and now in droves.
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  #10368  
Old 09-05-2021, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by DANGERMOUSE View Post
What does this actually mean, I wonder? Drawing the raffle at school fetes, turning on the Christmas lights, that sort of thing?

Surely only a small minority of us ever write to out MPs. And with the death of local newspapers it's got to be difficult for any local politician to get coverage for anything they do anyway. The number of people following their local representatives on social media has got to be much less than those who might've read about them twenty years ago, when local papers were still a thing.
You get involved in the towns the villages engage with the industries. Follet in Stevenage for instance I met a few times knew the issues affecting the employers and worked with them. McPartland does the same unlike previous MPs.
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  #10369  
Old 09-05-2021, 07:45 AM
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Except if you Google it the A and E closure at Hartlepool back in 2010 has been blamed on Tory and Labour particular. Its not new been fought over ever since.
Sorry, NHE, there seems to be some problem with those sentences, can you add the missing words, I genuinely want to know the meaning.

Quote:
Jobs the investment around Hartlepool if not in the town itself. When something is done after years of nothing the electorate will remember.
Yes, but since then there has been three general elections and so three opportunities for the electorate to remember, in 2014, 2017 and 2019, and every time, Labour has won.

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The lend the Tory the vote may well become the new Scotland. The vote never returns to Labour.
The wilful ignorance may apply in reverse the Labour Party has failed to understand the concerns of the core voters for too long. Taken for granted ignored and the belittled.. They have walked away slowly at first and now in droves.
I know this is the current cliche and received wisdom, but the argument works the other way too. The people in the north (the red wall), have always known the traditional values of the Labour party for the "working classes", so isn't it the case that they are the ones that have moved away from those values. In other words, the Labour values haven't changed, but the value the red wall applies to those values has changed.

Lets face it, Labour have been out of power for eleven year. Back in 2010, the global financial crisis hit, and somehow the Tories convinced sufficient numbers of the electorate that Labour was to blame for this, and Cameron got in but only with a coalition. Every thing that has happened since then is down to the Tories. Eleven years is a long time for memories to stick in this scenario. Personally, I still think Labour lost Hartlepool for several more compelling reasons. Brexit, the pandemic, and low turnout apathy, especially from traditional Labour voters.
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  #10370  
Old 09-05-2021, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
Sorry, NHE, there seems to be some problem with those sentences, can you add the missing words, I genuinely want to know the meaning.



Yes, but since then there has been three general elections and so three opportunities for the electorate to remember, in 2014, 2017 and 2019, and every time, Labour has won.



I know this is the current cliche and received wisdom, but the argument works the other way too. The people in the north (the red wall), have always known the traditional values of the Labour party for the "working classes", so isn't it the case that they are the ones that have moved away from those values. In other words, the Labour values haven't changed, but the value the red wall applies to those values has changed.

Lets face it, Labour have been out of power for eleven year. Back in 2010, the global financial crisis hit, and somehow the Tories convinced sufficient numbers of the electorate that Labour was to blame for this, and Cameron got in but only with a coalition. Every thing that has happened since then is down to the Tories. Eleven years is a long time for memories to stick in this scenario. Personally, I still think Labour lost Hartlepool for several more compelling reasons. Brexit, the pandemic, and low turnout apathy, especially from traditional Labour voters.
Thank you to our southern arrogance correspondent for that report.
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  #10371  
Old 09-05-2021, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
Sorry, NHE, there seems to be some problem with those sentences, can you add the missing words, I genuinely want to know the meaning.



Yes, but since then there has been three general elections and so three opportunities for the electorate to remember, in 2014, 2017 and 2019, and every time, Labour has won.



I know this is the current cliche and received wisdom, but the argument works the other way too. The people in the north (the red wall), have always known the traditional values of the Labour party for the "working classes", so isn't it the case that they are the ones that have moved away from those values. In other words, the Labour values haven't changed, but the value the red wall applies to those values has changed.

Lets face it, Labour have been out of power for eleven year. Back in 2010, the global financial crisis hit, and somehow the Tories convinced sufficient numbers of the electorate that Labour was to blame for this, and Cameron got in but only with a coalition. Every thing that has happened since then is down to the Tories. Eleven years is a long time for memories to stick in this scenario. Personally, I still think Labour lost Hartlepool for several more compelling reasons. Brexit, the pandemic, and low turnout apathy, especially from traditional Labour voters.
It was a response to the comments on the interviews on TV. The hospital closures in this case A and E . Its one voters view which has sime merit it seems from reading the local paper reports on the subject. It was not as you described wilful ignorance. You lose voter's over time. They have long memories. If you look at it there is often a pattern. Slowly diminishing majorities. Hartlepool stemmed in 2017 by Corbyn by 2019 it was saved for Kabour by the split Brexit vote. But voters will leave over local issues.
Its around 18000 new jobs created in the area not Hartlepool. A long time coming as the area has been decline for years.
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  #10372  
Old 09-05-2021, 08:05 AM
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I lived in Cumbria for 13 years and, during that time, Tim Farron worked his socks off to be elected and re-elected. He was very visible on local issues that were relevant to residents. I recall the fight to keep services at the local hospital in Kendal. Thousands turned out to join hands in a massive chain around the hospital. Tim's approach to being a MP is an example to be followed to keep a seat.
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  #10373  
Old 09-05-2021, 08:09 AM
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Hilarious listening to Labour people trying to polish turds on Sunday TV shows
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  #10374  
Old 09-05-2021, 08:10 AM
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He was a good MP and man of integrity, driven out by woke bullshit


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I lived in Cumbria for 13 years and, during that time, Tim Farron worked his socks off to be elected and re-elected. He was very visible on local issues that were relevant to residents. I recall the fight to keep services at the local hospital in Kendal. Thousands turned out to join hands in a massive chain around the hospital. Tim's approach to being a MP is an example to be followed to keep a seat.
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Old 09-05-2021, 08:28 AM
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Hilarious listening to Labour people trying to polish turds on Sunday TV shows
Perhaps you could lend them some of your expertise in this field?
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Old 09-05-2021, 08:35 AM
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My minimal experience would be of no use to Ian Murray who is the gold standard.


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Perhaps you could lend them some of your expertise in this field?
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Old 09-05-2021, 08:48 AM
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Personally I think Brexit was the catalyst for the poor result on Thursday and will continue to be so for some time. The country is still split between those glad we left and those who still think it's a bad idea however there is no appetite to rejoin and at the moment I don't think there is any point in calling for a closer relationship with the EU. Johnson's agreement with the EU is still new and any teething problems are being written off by either the pandemic, 'teething problems' or EU intransigence. How do Labour respond whilst getting their Brexit supporting voters back on side but not loosing the support of those who wanted to remain? It's a tough one and I don't think it can be sorted any time soon until the success or failure of the Johnson agreement becomes clear. When it does they need a leader who can talk to people on both sides of the divide and try to forge s common sense way forward.

However I'm staggered to hear they put up a remain candidate on Thursday in an area that voted 70% leave and now they are soul searching as to why they aren't connecting with their core voters. They really need to invest heavily in a decent public relations strategist such as those employed by the Tories, at the moment they are looking very amateurish.
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Old 09-05-2021, 08:55 AM
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Rumours are he’s about to sack Gabriel Jesus
But Gabriel Jesus will still be the part of the team.........as the water boy...
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Old 09-05-2021, 08:58 AM
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If the BBC Westminster voting projection based on local election results are relied upon I.e.

Conservative 327 -38
Labour 226 +23
Libdem 24 + 13
Other 73 +2

And looking at the policies and areas that are popular, I think Keir Starmer cannot win the next GE unfortunately. Although I too thought he was the best choice, if he can't win, then it's just pointless idealism.

The popular policies that do cut through are:

Nationalism (Scottish, Welsh & English)
Taking back control
Having charisma and speaking up for the people you represent
Local issues, business, jobs, schools, hospitals


Brexit is still a hangover in some areas e.g hartlepool and anywhere where the brexit party were strong, but this will fade as will it's popularity when jobs are lost and furlough payments are stopped.

If Labour pivots to much more devolution especially in the English regions, an acceptance and neutrality on Scottish independence referendum.
A commitment to help those let down by the shit brexit deal e.g. fishermen and coastal communities.

Andy Burnham's speech spoke to much more devolution, he became the king of the north during Covid, he is left wing enough and business friendly enough to barbell the needs of the north and the aspirations of the south, he is untainted by brexit and being labelled as an out of touch elite London woke warrior. He has a record of achievement and high profile as Mayor of Manchester.

He is not an MP but could be parachuted in like BJ
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Old 09-05-2021, 08:58 AM
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It was worse than Gatting’s reverse sweep wicket in the World Cup final against Pakistan in the early 90s.
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