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  #10881  
Old 08-06-2021, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
Agree with that, but how do you suggest that aggression is directed? How can Labour ruthlessness be deployed effectively? What tangible thing can be done to rock this establishment government by the leader of the opposition?
For a start you need to be ruthless internally. It's a democratic party, so you have to fight in the elections on your platform and beat the other side of the party. In this case, I would want the left to be defeating the right and gaining control of the NEC. Without that it is impossible to have party unity.

From there you have hundreds of thousands of members and activists to campaign in local elections and general elections. Get the message out there. And the message is also important. The Tories' rhetoric has changed in the last few years. They are no longer continuing with the pro austerity line in the same way they did in 2015, because they can't get away with it. They could prior to 2015 because no major party was willing to take an anti austerity stance.

So in a nutshell:

Defeat the right of the party
Hundreds of thousands of activists
A policy agenda that clearly distinguishes Labour from the Lib Dems and Tories
And no more of the Corbyn "Nice politics" claptrap. If Boris makes an error, be ruthless. Give him the treatment that Dianne Abbott got for a slip up.
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  #10882  
Old 08-06-2021, 03:37 PM
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New from @IpsosMORI
/@standardnews
.

Net satisfaction with leaders of the opposition 14 months in:

Starmer -29
Corbyn -29
Miliband -16
Cameron -3 (15 months in as we didn't ask at 14 mths)
Howard -26
IDS -27
Hague -23
Blair +26 (yes that is +26)
Smith -4
Kinnock -19
Foot -40
Interesting polling.
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  #10883  
Old 08-06-2021, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Interesting polling.
I’m not sure what it really tells anyone. The only three who stand out in a positive sense are Cameron, Blair and Smith. Incumbency has a power of its own is not exactly news.

Smith benefits from the incumbent government having just experienced a massive external shock, being the early nineties recession in the western world. To some degree a Blair does too but it’s further away at that point and at that stage it’s been what 15 years of the Tories and frankly everyone’s had enough. Cameron is interesting simply because he’s the only one who has taken over in a period where there isn’t a live or recent external shock effect and yet not been unpopular.

I suppose you could say Foot and Starmer stand out for being hugely unpopular despite an external shock event for the incumbent government.
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  #10884  
Old 10-06-2021, 04:04 AM
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PMQ’s yesterday….not sure why but Starmer’s questioning just feels rather lame all of a sudden. Landing punches but with no power in them if you know what I mean.

At the beginning of his leadership it really felt like he was making inroads and hurting Boris, but can’t put my finger on why, but over the recent months he’s now like a powder puff head teacher continuously admonishing the naughty school child Boris for his obvious indiscretions, but with little or no repercussions. Depressing.
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  #10885  
Old 10-06-2021, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by bubbs11 View Post
PMQ’s yesterday….not sure why but Starmer’s questioning just feels rather lame all of a sudden. Landing punches but with no power in them if you know what I mean.

At the beginning of his leadership it really felt like he was making inroads and hurting Boris, but can’t put my finger on why, but over the recent months he’s now like a powder puff head teacher continuously admonishing the naughty school child Boris for his obvious indiscretions, but with little or no repercussions. Depressing.
It’s quite simple. Forensic examination at PMQs is not going to work as Johnson has realised he can ignore the actual substance of the questions and there is little parliamentary procedure that actually forces him to answer.

But don’t worry about it. Hague used to regularly rip Blair to shreds at PMQs. PMQs doesn’t mean anything (although Hague got Mandelson fired through a PMQ session).
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  #10886  
Old 10-06-2021, 03:17 PM
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I see Margaret Hodge has said she has reported UNITE to the police for breaching anti-union laws. Appalling. Political strikes and influence by the unions in Myanmar is applauded. But banned and reported to the police over here.
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  #10887  
Old 10-06-2021, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
I see Margaret Hodge has said she has reported UNITE to the police for breaching anti-union laws. Appalling. Political strikes and influence by the unions in Myanmar is applauded. But banned and reported to the police over here.
Not a very nice Labour person.
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  #10888  
Old 11-06-2021, 08:28 AM
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  #10889  
Old 11-06-2021, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
I see Margaret Hodge has said she has reported UNITE to the police for breaching anti-union laws. Appalling. Political strikes and influence by the unions in Myanmar is applauded. But banned and reported to the police over here.
Once again zero context. You're a case you are.

Why has she reported them to the police?
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  #10890  
Old 11-06-2021, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
Once again zero context. You're a case you are.

Why has she reported them to the police?
I will give him a clue not for political strikes or influence.
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  #10891  
Old 11-06-2021, 09:44 AM
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I will give him a clue not for political strikes or influence.
Is it because she doesn't get English irony, already?
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  #10892  
Old 11-06-2021, 12:24 PM
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Is it because she doesn't get English irony, already?
It is odd. He comes on, smears someone and then disappears. I wonder if there is something about the proudly Jewish Labour MP that he finds objectionable.
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  #10893  
Old 11-06-2021, 02:02 PM
N Herts Eagle N Herts Eagle is offline
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More puzzling Siobhain McDonagh requested the Labour Party to investigate the same issue. Which was the possibility that Unite funded activists to unseat sitting MPs. Tom Watson for instance. The issue came from a Times report that obtained EMails where it was duscussed.
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  #10894  
Old 12-06-2021, 09:38 AM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is online now
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Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
It is odd. He comes on, smears someone and then disappears. I wonder if there is something about the proudly Jewish Labour MP that he finds objectionable.
Yeah really odd. Couldn’t just be that I wasn’t on the BBS.

The thing I find objectionable about Margaret Hodge is the same as it is about Siobhain McDonagh. Their awful politics and personalities.

And yes it was about political influence. I’m fine with unions paying activists to unseat MPs and it is a breach of Tory anti union laws. Appalling that labour MPs are reporting UNITE to the police for this.

I see the bigot Herts steps in with his usual hypocrisy.
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  #10895  
Old 12-06-2021, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by meee View Post
For a start you need to be ruthless internally. It's a democratic party, so you have to fight in the elections on your platform and beat the other side of the party. In this case, I would want the left to be defeating the right and gaining control of the NEC. Without that it is impossible to have party unity.

From there you have hundreds of thousands of members and activists to campaign in local elections and general elections. Get the message out there. And the message is also important. The Tories' rhetoric has changed in the last few years. They are no longer continuing with the pro austerity line in the same way they did in 2015, because they can't get away with it. They could prior to 2015 because no major party was willing to take an anti austerity stance.

So in a nutshell:

Defeat the right of the party
Hundreds of thousands of activists
A policy agenda that clearly distinguishes Labour from the Lib Dems and Tories
And no more of the Corbyn "Nice politics" claptrap. If Boris makes an error, be ruthless. Give him the treatment that Dianne Abbott got for a slip up.
Except that its not as simple as left v right....the party is bedevilled by factionalism..on all sides...so that the traditional tribunite left is regarded by some factions as now of the right on the 'if you are not just like us, means you you are 'right wing' analysis.

Last edited by legaleagle2; 12-06-2021 at 10:53 AM.
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  #10896  
Old 12-06-2021, 11:06 AM
N Herts Eagle N Herts Eagle is offline
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Yeah really odd. Couldn’t just be that I wasn’t on the BBS.

The thing I find objectionable about Margaret Hodge is the same as it is about Siobhain McDonagh. Their awful politics and personalities.

And yes it was about political influence. I’m fine with unions paying activists to unseat MPs and it is a breach of Tory anti union laws. Appalling that labour MPs are reporting UNITE to the police for this.

I see the bigot Herts steps in with his usual hypocrisy.
They didnt Hodge reported the non declaration of funding not the action. Unite can do what they like Labour the same. However any action that is funded has to be declared. Niether Labour or Unite did. Hence it was illegal.
The debate is whether they did fund they Unite deny so it needs investigation..

Do try and at least keep up on what you attempt to smear with.

McDongah reported it to Labour i think regarding the action not the funding.
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  #10897  
Old 12-06-2021, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by legaleagle2 View Post
Except that its not as simple as left v right....the party is bedevilled by factionalism..on all sides...so that the traditional tribunite left is regarded by some factions as now of the right on the 'if you are not just like us, means you you are 'right wing' analysis.
Not really, there is some common ground to be found and a lot was when Corbyn was elected leader twice. He could not have done that without all sides of the party. The problem now is we have the likes of Mandelson running the show and they have absolutely zero interest in uniting all sides. The smaller they make the party, the easier for them to run it the way they want to. Then they lose and wonder why none of the people that they chased out wanted to vote for them.
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  #10898  
Old 12-06-2021, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by N Herts Eagle View Post
They didnt Hodge reported the non declaration of funding not the action. Unite can do what they like Labour the same. However any action that is funded has to be declared. Niether Labour or Unite did. Hence it was illegal.
The debate is whether they did fund they Unite deny so it needs investigation..

Do try and at least keep up on what you attempt to smear with.

McDongah reported it to Labour i think regarding the action not the funding.
It’s a petty act and something not befit of a labour MP towards the unions.

As for smearing you’re the master of that.
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  #10899  
Old 12-06-2021, 05:11 PM
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Do we have to support Margaret Hodge, though, just because she’s Jewish and proud? I wouldn’t say her political career was one long triumphal and ethical march.
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  #10900  
Old 12-06-2021, 05:15 PM
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Do we have to support Margaret Hodge, though, just because she’s Jewish and proud? I wouldn’t say her political career was one long triumphal and ethical march.
Her role in Islington was utterly shameful.
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