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  #241  
Old 25-02-2021, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by garronrav View Post
Probably because the first 3 made more material than The Kinks, they've done some great stuff but it would probably fit on one or two albums


They’ve got two whole CD albums just of hit singles.

The real reason they’re not so feted is because they didn’t break the States - too poofy.
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  #242  
Old 25-02-2021, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by bubbs11 View Post
Always felt that about Macca’s solo output. I think both Paul and John missed the other in terms of objective editor and critique of each other’s offerings.
I agree on that. Paul of course had a second band "Wings:" and wrote some great songs with them( Live and Let Die, Maybe I'm Amazed, Band on the Run etc) Ebony and Ivory and Mull of Kyntyre were terrific too - although a few on here have disagreed with that. Lennon wrote some fantastic songs for imagine and I would have loved them to have been BEATLES songs, as they would have been even better. Songs like Jealous Guy, Imagine, and Oh My Love were truly outstanding.
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  #243  
Old 25-02-2021, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterH View Post
He has done wonderfully well for himself financially, career wise, and in entertainment on the back of Lennon's talent.

I doubt we should be continuing to celebrate that.

But people continue to buy his tosh.
I always saw that they tempered each others output. There's no way the Beatles would've done the Frog Song in the way it was or for that matter Cold Turkey.
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  #244  
Old 25-02-2021, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
All opinions are subjective, it's a tad redundant to repeatedly say "subjective opinion."

noun: hype
extravagant or intensive publicity or promotion.
"his first album hit the stores amid a storm of hype"

The Beatles are the biggest band of all time, and still one of the best selling in the 21st century. "Hype" is a more than a fair term to use for one of their most beloved albums. Whether you think said hype is merited, or believe it's unjustified like I do, makes zero difference to the accuracy of the statement: "hype around the white Album."
Yes, the Beatles are the biggest selling of all time. The nearest being Garth Brooks quite a long way behind.
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  #245  
Old 25-02-2021, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterH View Post
Ha Ha.

I am not an expert of his solo stuff. But there are probably no worse songs in the English language than Mull of ****yre, Frog's Chorus, Ebony and Ivory, and Say, Say, Say.

Multiple concerts, benefits, and grand occasions world wide, and he comes waltzing onto the stage to finish with Hey Jude and Let it Be.....time and time again.

And he shoed in his wife to sing with Wings, when she had a worst voice than Dot Cotton.
You have explained it very well Peter in the paragraph that I have highlighted . Worldwide appeal. Red Square in Russia, The White House, massive concerts all over the World. He plays to tens of thousands at a time and they love him playing the BEATLES and Wings songs. If it wasn't for Covid he would still be out there performing to vast crowds. Hey Jude is probably the greatest song ever (subjective view I know) and how many could literally write a song from a dream (Let It Be). People love to hear these classic songs performed live and that is why he performs so many of his back catalogue. Even the most covered popular song of all time (Yesterday - covered by 2,200 artists) came to him in a dream. Both John and Paul were musical geniuses.
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  #246  
Old 25-02-2021, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by El Aguila View Post


They’ve got two whole CD albums just of hit singles.

The real reason they’re not so feted is because they didn’t break the States - too poofy.
Being banned from touring over there probably didn't help them either.
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  #247  
Old 25-02-2021, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by KYLIE MINEAGLE View Post
I've never bought into The Beatles v the rest debate. It is possible to like or dislike certain bands. Or even individual songs from bands you like. I am a great Beatles fan but admit they wrote some crap. Growing up I listened to all the bands mentioned and a few more not mentioned. Basically I grew up in a time of great music and never thought one was superior to the other . As Gladys Knight would say" I guess you can say that I've been lucky"
I reckon everyone probably thinks the same about the music of their youth etc but I do think it was a golden age of music evolution from Elvis Presley to Elvis Costello and beyond. Motown magic, Led Zep, Moodies, Soul, Sabbath, Joni, Beatles, Stones, the Who, Dylan, Stevie W, Annie L and Dave S and still finding new bands each week and enjoying them. A broad church as they say. but it’s tough to match the first time you hear one of those landmark songs and you are just blown away and now are taken back to that moment whenever you hear the opening notes.
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  #248  
Old 25-02-2021, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by El Aguila View Post


They’ve got two whole CD albums just of hit singles.

The real reason they’re not so feted is because they didn’t break the States - too poofy.
Yeah, I had always thought it was the US that made the difference for them or rather would have if they had broken through. As I remember it (for me) the Kinks were developing their own meatier sound while the Beatles were still in their earlier, simpler, clean cut phase. TBh it’s difficult to tell if that’s just how I encountered the music or if that’s how it actually was. Back then it was radio Luxembourg, Caroline and later albums from mates at school and my Mum’s youngest sister who was super cool!
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  #249  
Old 25-02-2021, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
Yes, the Beatles are the biggest selling of all time. The nearest being Garth Brooks quite a long way behind.
He’s crap as a football pundit though isn’t he......
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  #250  
Old 26-02-2021, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by garronrav View Post
63 years now and still going
I don't think they've been holding onto anyones coat tails.
Cliff Richard’s still going, what’s your point?

You may find the Stones music more appealing to listen to - fair enough; but even after their 60 years they never got close to writing the catalogue of diverse, creative, innovative and ground breaking music The Beatles did in their 8 years. Go and tell any musician that the Stones wrote better songs and watch them fall about laughing.
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  #251  
Old 26-02-2021, 12:57 AM
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I do think the Kinks are underestimated whenever someone or other looks back at that period. I liked all of those mentioned above (Who, Stones, Beatles, Kinks) but the first three seem to get far more credit than the Davies mob. Some great memories.
Agree. Ray Davies is massively underrated as a songwriting craftsman. If you took the best 10 songs written by every popular music artist in the U.K. , he would be right there in the Champions League places.

The reason the Kinks didn’t break the States is because at the height of their powers in the mid 60’s they were ridiculously banned from performing there for four years. They upset quite a few folk in their ‘65 tour with punch ups during gigs, not turning up to venues and political comments that didn’t go down very well with some Americans.

Ray Davies was a law unto himself. Not really that well known, but Ray really suffered mentally all his life. Had a breakdown at the height of their fame and was later in life diagnosed with Schizophrenia.

Around the time his autobiography X Ray was released in the mid 90’s, I saw him perform a one man show at Fairfield Halls. He just basically talked about his life and accompanied each anecdote with one of his songs. One of my favourite and most memorable shows I’ve ever seen.
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  #252  
Old 26-02-2021, 01:13 AM
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Have to say only few Beatles songs would make my top 20, and one of those is only because changing the words to yellow Submarine was the height of playground hilarity as an 8 year old . Revolution , and hey Jude were pretty good though . I think the who, the small faces, the kinks , and the stones wrote better songs at the time , the Beatles though had a very well oiled PR machine, which was only ever matched by Loog Oldham and the stones . Had they still been around in the 70's I'm not so sure they could have sustained it up against the likes of Bowie either .
I am not a music fan. That doesn't mean that at some at some stage the devil took my soul or I was born without one.

But I am not a fan of music like a lot of people are. They devour rifts, read minutai into every lyric, search out obscure bands and singers, mourn the passing of feckers that most people have necer heard of. Music is hobby to them, to the point they dabble themselves. We have the King of Karoake on this thread, and many a strummer of a guitar.

For me, I like tunes. I like a few Beatles tracks, the Rolling Stones, the hit songs of many arock group or legend...but if I et the album then I will generally be skipping over their lesser known numbers. I am probably missing out, but I suspect there are more people like me than there are of the other variety.

My passions, especially when tiddly, are MOBO. I daresay that if I even attempted to come up with my 20 favourite songs, they would all fall into this category. And the rock purists would hate 15 of them.

Thus it is subjective, and down to the ear of the listener. Being a music snob or a purist doesn't change that. Bowie may be a genius and Kate Bush and Bjork, too. But many might see them as a prancer in drag, and a pair of wailing witches.

While I like a few Beatles songs none of them would appear in my top 50. If I had to post up my take on the 50 most influential pop (etc) songs that would be a different argument.

In reference to the 'Wealthy' thread, is Imagine an important classic or is it sentimental tosh with huge flaws. Imagine No Religion.... how does that line sit with him and his former mates going off to India and have their revelations half a decade before....you could say it is a soppy, hypocritical pop song where the words are chosen to fight the lines.

Unrelated, I know, but You're Beautiful by James Blunt. I have a lot of time for him. But at the start of a song, where he is clearly being a sex pest or letch and probably needs knocking out by the boyfriend, he says he has a plan. At the end he says he doesn't know what to do....some fecking plan that. Words fighting the music.

And don't we all just wish that Macca could fecking Let It Be.
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  #253  
Old 26-02-2021, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by bubbs11 View Post
The reason the Kinks didn’t break the States is because at the height of their powers in the mid 60’s they were ridiculously banned from performing there for four years. They upset quite a few folk in their ‘65 tour with punch ups during gigs, not turning up to venues and political comments that didn’t go down very well with some Americans.
I love you Bubbs, like a brother. And I don't want to just be contrary, but I think you are blinding yourself here.

How was that ban 'ridiculous' in the context you wrote. You don't go to a country and in public express views that are likely to cause upset without expecting some comeback. Being a rock star, movie star, footballer etc. doesn't make you immune from that.

The Beatles did themselves with the bigger than Jesus comment - so what did the kinks say.

As for not turning up at venues, for whatever reason, what do people say when Amy Winehouse did much the same thing or Whitney Houston couldn't carry a note anymore. People can forgive one off cancelations or indiscretions. It is when it becomes a habit that people get tired of it.

See Jarvis Cocker, Morrissey etc..
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  #254  
Old 26-02-2021, 03:28 AM
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Absolute nonsense

I love The Kinks and Bowie too, but no one came close to equalling the Beatles in sheer volume of quality songs written. It’s not even a debate. The Stones hung onto their coat tails.
It obviously is a debate because we're debating it...as for the rest of your post, keep taking the tablets.
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Old 26-02-2021, 03:48 AM
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If I was ever invited to participate on Desert Island Disc I don't think there would be a Beatles song on there.

Only one that might be considered is not a Beatles but a Wings one.... The Long And Winding Road. More for memories of a time and place (as is the idea of the show I believe). Might be 9th or 10th, but not make the cut of 8 songs for the show.

It's the only Beatles related song on my favorites playlist containing 96 songs.
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  #256  
Old 26-02-2021, 06:16 AM
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The Long and Winding Road *is* a Beatles song rather than by Wings, Hedgers.
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Old 26-02-2021, 06:21 AM
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I am not an expert of his solo stuff. But there are probably no worse songs in the English language than Mull of ****yre, Frog's Chorus, Ebony and Ivory, and Say, Say, Say.
"Imagine" is worse than any of those, two of which were duets, one was with Wings and another was by Paul McCartney and The Frog Chorus (and is actually called "We All Stand Together"), which I suppose proves your lack of expertise on his solo work.
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Old 26-02-2021, 06:22 AM
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It obviously is a debate because we're debating it...as for the rest of your post, keep taking the tablets.
You have got to be trolling or you must be one of those musicians that just like saying The Beatles were overrated as it then appears you know something others don’t.

Of course everyone is free and totally correct to say they much prefer listening to The Stones, Bowie or the bloody Smurfs than The Beatles. That’s totally valid. Music taste is subjective and all in the ear of the beholder. I’m not even talking about record sales, even though The Beatles top that chart too.

But if we are talking solely about music as an art from and trying to gage song writing ability, recording techniques and influence their music had on the world and generations of people, then there’s only one winner and it ain’t the Smurfs, Level 42 or whatever grabs your fancy.
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Old 26-02-2021, 07:23 AM
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A while back there was a Kinks documentary that was being hyped up, I was looking forward to that and only just remembered it reading through this thread. Was it ever released. Some of the Davies bros barnies sounded legendary.

FWIW Here Comes The Sun is probably my favourite record ever, along with The Boxer, and I am a Rock.

The year We All Stand Together was released I received the VHS for Christmas, I think that and the two accompanying videos gave me the love of animation I still hold today. The Oriental Nightfish was great at the time (Linda Mac I believe) and there's a sort of Reggea/Calypso/Caribbean that was fun as well. The frogs were probably awful for adults, but I was still young enough to enjoy the bit of magic McCartney brought around Christmas. I think that was the last time I bought into the whole palaver too.
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Old 26-02-2021, 07:33 AM
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All opinions are subjective, it's a tad redundant to repeatedly say "subjective opinion."

noun: hype
extravagant or intensive publicity or promotion.
"his first album hit the stores amid a storm of hype"

The Beatles are the biggest band of all time, and still one of the best selling in the 21st century. "Hype" is a more than a fair term to use for one of their most beloved albums. Whether you think said hype is merited, or believe it's unjustified like I do, makes zero difference to the accuracy of the statement: "hype around the white Album."
Well quite so its NOT hype its just other people opinions you disagree with. Its funny you struggle with this as its not complex. However i will defend your right to not agree with my opinion on hype.
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