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  #221  
Old 28-06-2022, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
There were two Democratic senators who blocked progressive bills. They wanted pro corporate bills. Biden should have said you only get the first if you pass the progressive bills first.

But of course Biden and his like serve corporate interests before all else.
I suspect one of the Senators you're referring to is Joe Manchin, who is Democrat only in name. Take it from me, he was never going to vote for a progressive bill. Yes, he has corporate interests front and center, but the balance of power was firmly in the wrong direction. He said, help me and I'll help you, then ****ed everyone over. It was never ever going to be I'll help you and then you back me. He had the power to deadlock the entire Biden agenda, which he did.

The only hope was to appeal to his moral character. It was no surprise to anyone to discover he doesn't have one.
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  #222  
Old 28-06-2022, 05:42 AM
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I suspect one of the Senators you're referring to is Joe Manchin, who is Democrat only in name. Take it from me, he was never going to vote for a progressive bill. Yes, he has corporate interests front and center, but the balance of power was firmly in the wrong direction. He said, help me and I'll help you, then ****ed everyone over. It was never ever going to be I'll help you and then you back me. He had the power to deadlock the entire Biden agenda, which he did.

The only hope was to appeal to his moral character. It was no surprise to anyone to discover he doesn't have one.
Five thirty eight wrote a bit about it To view the link you have to Register or Login
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  #223  
Old 28-06-2022, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by wavey View Post
I suspect one of the Senators you're referring to is Joe Manchin, who is Democrat only in name. Take it from me, he was never going to vote for a progressive bill. Yes, he has corporate interests front and center, but the balance of power was firmly in the wrong direction. He said, help me and I'll help you, then ****ed everyone over. It was never ever going to be I'll help you and then you back me. He had the power to deadlock the entire Biden agenda, which he did.

The only hope was to appeal to his moral character. It was no surprise to anyone to discover he doesn't have one.
Which is my point. They shouldnít have given him what he wanted until he had supported what they wanted.
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  #224  
Old 28-06-2022, 09:12 AM
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Which is my point. They shouldnít have given him what he wanted until he had supported what they wanted.
Isnít that 6th form politics?
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  #225  
Old 28-06-2022, 09:54 AM
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Which is my point. They shouldnít have given him what he wanted until he had supported what they wanted.
But he wouldn't give them what they wanted until they supported what he wanted.
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  #226  
Old 28-06-2022, 10:03 AM
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Isnít that 6th form politics?
SEN politics, more like lolololol.

Off-topic, but did you see To view the link you have to Register or Login in yesterday's Guardian about the utopia that is contemporary Denmark? Is it fair, or a bit sensationalist?
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  #227  
Old 28-06-2022, 10:45 AM
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But he wouldn't give them what they wanted until they supported what he wanted.
But then he would have stopped the infrastructure bill from going through which was what all his corporate mates wanted passed.
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  #228  
Old 28-06-2022, 11:47 AM
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But then he would have stopped the infrastructure bill from going through which was what all his corporate mates wanted passed.
Yes. This is what he threatened.
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  #229  
Old 28-06-2022, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
But he wouldn't give them what they wanted until they supported what he wanted.
I donít think thatís true. As a senator he needed to be able to show his constituents he had got something through leverage. Withhold what he wanted until he gave something in return.
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  #230  
Old 28-06-2022, 12:57 PM
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For those talking about sixth form politics what do you suggest?

At present the Democrats aren’t able to stop massive attacks on civil liberties, both in terms of abortion and democracy, and looks like we are heading back to a Republican president and losses in the mid terms.
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  #231  
Old 28-06-2022, 01:32 PM
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The Progressives, whether right or wrong in their demands, created a rift in the Dem party. Biden tried to satisfy everyone but ended up satisfying no one. He was still up against mconnell and trump and two of his own party, the russia invaded ukraine and the economy went to hell. He cant run again unless he gets a major stroke of luck. Harris will be a failure. To reply to your question re sanders, I think bernie was too much of a risk because people dont know the difference between socialism and communism (they aint too smart over here!). The most important issue at the time was to get trump out of the way.
I suspect a lot of them aren't even aware of what Communism or Socialism is, other than what the hyperbole junkies say they are (i.e. Not Republicans).

Sanders was a risk, in the way that any change is a risk, and the Democrats are very much timid on the idea of change.
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  #232  
Old 28-06-2022, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Which is my point. They shouldnít have given him what he wanted until he had supported what they wanted.
My point is Manchin wasn't going to support anything Biden was putting forward until he got what he wanted. Biden had no leverage over Manchin, but Manchin plenty over Biden.
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  #233  
Old 28-06-2022, 02:23 PM
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I donít think thatís true. As a senator he needed to be able to show his constituents he had got something through leverage. Withhold what he wanted until he gave something in return.
He represents coal country in West Virginia which is staunchly Red. That a Democrat manages to be elected to the Senate there at all is remarkable, but it also tells you why he has failed to support any progressive bills. Blocking those bills is what his constituents want. Blocking climate change proposals is what his constituents want. And bills favorable to the coal industry is what lines his pocket book and is what his constituents want. Manchin has delivered for his constituents over and over, without ever having to concede anything.
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  #234  
Old 28-06-2022, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
For those talking about sixth form politics what do you suggest?

At present the Democrats arenít able to stop massive attacks on civil liberties, both in terms of abortion and democracy, and looks like we are heading back to a Republican president and losses in the mid terms.
Yes, things are exceptionally grim. I fear that the next US president will successfully dismantle functioning democracy in America.

The only hope is the Democrats find a voice engaging and powerful enough by 2024 to mobilize Democrat and swing voters in massive turnout. They need to embody the voice of the 'land of free' and become the party of true American values and patriotism.
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  #235  
Old 28-06-2022, 03:25 PM
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Yes, things are exceptionally grim. I fear that the next US president will successfully dismantle functioning democracy in America.

The only hope is the Democrats find a voice engaging and powerful enough by 2024 to mobilize Democrat and swing voters in massive turnout. They need to embody the voice of the 'land of free' and become the party of true American values and patriotism.
Just looking at the states that 'have doubled down on Anti-Abortion legislation - its primarily a list of the usual suspects that are associated with flag shagging racist states typically representing by senators with the combined IQ of a four generation incest product.
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  #236  
Old 28-06-2022, 04:00 PM
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My point is Manchin wasn't going to support anything Biden was putting forward until he got what he wanted. Biden had no leverage over Manchin, but Manchin plenty over Biden.
He also represents the residents of one of the lower income, less educated states. They rely largely on the coal industry and related companies for income.
He's not going to vote yea on any high cost or environmental issues as that will hurt his chances of reelection
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  #237  
Old 28-06-2022, 04:08 PM
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For those talking about sixth form politics what do you suggest?
I suggest that people go to public forums and target all centrist or centre-left politicians. Tell everyone they are useless and will not benefit the electorate as they are up to their necks in corruption. Do this for year and years and years. It doesn't matter whether or not you understand the political reality. Actually, it is better if you don't, otherwise you might look a bit of an idiot.

Centre = bad, left of centre = bad. It is a great way to ensure the far right do not win.
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  #238  
Old 28-06-2022, 05:33 PM
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I suggest that people go to public forums and target all centrist or centre-left politicians. Tell everyone they are useless and will not benefit the electorate as they are up to their necks in corruption. Do this for year and years and years. It doesn't matter whether or not you understand the political reality. Actually, it is better if you don't, otherwise you might look a bit of an idiot.

Centre = bad, left of centre = bad. It is a great way to ensure the far right do not win.
Ah itís the progressives fault. Is that you Hilary?

It has nothing to do with years and years of treading on the working and lower middle classes, outsourcing their jobs abroad, making sure the ones left donít get real wage increases for a generation, insane health costsÖ. Do they look in the mirror when they lose an unlosable election? NahÖ blame Bernie Saunders types.
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  #239  
Old 28-06-2022, 06:04 PM
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Ah itís the progressives fault. Is that you Hilary?

It has nothing to do with years and years of treading on the working and lower middle classes, outsourcing their jobs abroad, making sure the ones left donít get real wage increases for a generation, insane health costsÖ. Do they look in the mirror when they lose an unlosable election? NahÖ blame Bernie Saunders types.
What the f*ck are you on about? The progressives' candidate lost in the primaries and by and large they got behind the selected candidate. They knew that they had to get Trump out as the priority.
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  #240  
Old 28-06-2022, 06:07 PM
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What the f*ck are you on about? The progressives' candidate lost in the primaries and by and large they got behind the selected candidate. They knew that they had to get Trump out as the priority.
I was on about 2016
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