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  #2361  
Old 22-04-2021, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by spt1978 View Post
I think scrapping the league cup may actually help the FA cup become more important again.
Personally wouldn't want to scrap the league Cup. Still part of history and a major trophy. Definitely needs a revamp though. FA Cup is an open cup and League Cup is for the leagues teams to participate. Problem is they've tweaked the league Cup so much it now doesn't work. I wonder why. Nothing to do with letting clueless foreigner companies come in as a sponsor and try and revamp it with their razzmatazz to they ensure their big far east supported teams make the latter stages......hmmmm I'm seeing a trend here.

Thinking about it I think it needs to scrap the seedings process of the cup. You always used to find an unfashionable club go far in the league Cup. I know spurs are there this year but it's rare you see a smaller team get to even the semi finals now. I think the issue is the seedings, and do they have home advantage and who ever plays in Europe an advantage as well? Scrap it all. Just have a free for all which will make it a tad exciting again. Let Man City be drawn against Man Utd in the 1st round. Most teams start with 2nd strings in any case so what does it matter. Problem is even championship and even the bigger league 1 clubs can't be bothered with it now.

I think the reason for it is the massive advantage the teams playing in Europe get from it. By time they enter i think its round 3 and as the league Cup has fewer teams at this point than the FA cup it's virtually a bye to the quarter finals. Its current format is designed to support the bigger teams so they play stronger sides and keep foreign sponsors happy but has alienated the other 80 or so clubs. Its a complete nonsense. What's the point of someone like Sunderland who would start in round 1 do all the donkey work in the previous rounds to then get a seeded draw against Man City away in round 3. The pre draws have fu**** it right up as well. Take us for example. Was it Bournemouth away but everyone knew the winners would then play Man City away. I bet your bottom dollar both clubs thought **** that we're not interested in this.

A cup draw should be a cup draw. You could be lucky and face lower sides until the very late stages. Or you could get unlucky. Thats the nature of a cup draw. In it's current state all it really is is a mini knockout for European clubs to win another trophy. They get a seeded drawer in rd3 and before you know it it's rd4 then QF. The whole thing is ****** because we've allowed a clueless foreign company too much say for their own business interests. Go back to basic draws where its a free for all and you can get the buzz of ooh so and so could go out here and there instead of 97% of your tournaments teams knowing they don't have a chance of winning the thing because of the skewed draw so we even have league 1 sides now playing 2nd strings. The thing is a complete joke.
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  #2362  
Old 22-04-2021, 08:31 AM
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I believe the maximum number of points the Premier league could deduct is 30.
I'd give them some leniency for pulling the plug on it early on, so a 15 point deduction would seem fair to me.

You've only got to look at the penalties handed out to numerous other clubs whose owners have broken rules. It never seemed to matter that fans, players & club officials were completely innocent. The punishments were still handed out when it was the owners at fault.
It's no different this time. If those 6 get away with it, it will leave a legacy that will come back to haunt the Premier league in years to come.
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  #2363  
Old 22-04-2021, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Wycombe Eagle#2 View Post
Personally wouldn't want to scrap the league Cup. Still part of history and a major trophy. Definitely needs a revamp though. FA Cup is an open cup and League Cup is for the leagues teams to participate. Problem is they've tweaked the league Cup so much it now doesn't work. I wonder why. Nothing to do with letting clueless foreigner companies come in as a sponsor and try and revamp it with their razzmatazz to they ensure their big far east supported teams make the latter stages......hmmmm I'm seeing a trend here.

Thinking about it I think it needs to scrap the seedings process of the cup. You always used to find an unfashionable club go far in the league Cup. I know spurs are there this year but it's rare you see a smaller team get to even the semi finals now. I think the issue is the seedings, and do they have home advantage and who ever plays in Europe an advantage as well? Scrap it all. Just have a free for all which will make it a tad exciting again. Let Man City be drawn against Man Utd in the 1st round. Most teams start with 2nd strings in any case so what does it matter. Problem is even championship and even the bigger league 1 clubs can't be bothered with it now.

I think the reason for it is the massive advantage the teams playing in Europe get from it. By time they enter i think its round 3 and as the league Cup has fewer teams at this point than the FA cup it's virtually a bye to the quarter finals. Its current format is designed to support the bigger teams so they play stronger sides and keep foreign sponsors happy but has alienated the other 80 or so clubs. Its a complete nonsense. What's the point of someone like Sunderland who would start in round 1 do all the donkey work in the previous rounds to then get a seeded draw against Man City away in round 3. The pre draws have fu**** it right up as well. Take us for example. Was it Bournemouth away but everyone knew the winners would then play Man City away. I bet your bottom dollar both clubs thought **** that we're not interested in this.

A cup draw should be a cup draw. You could be lucky and face lower sides until the very late stages. Or you could get unlucky. Thats the nature of a cup draw. In it's current state all it really is is a mini knockout for European clubs to win another trophy. They get a seeded drawer in rd3 and before you know it it's rd4 then QF. The whole thing is ****** because we've allowed a clueless foreign company too much say for their own business interests. Go back to basic draws where its a free for all and you can get the buzz of ooh so and so could go out here and there instead of 97% of your tournaments teams knowing they don't have a chance of winning the thing because of the skewed draw so we even have league 1 sides now playing 2nd strings. The thing is a complete joke.
Id like the teams in Europe not to be included in the league cup or atleast the teams in the Champions League not to be included. Would mean some new teams getting into Europe and I think mid tier premier league teams would take it more seriously. Bloody Man City have won it 5 out of the last 7 years. Probably about to be 6 out of 8.
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  #2364  
Old 22-04-2021, 09:09 AM
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  #2365  
Old 22-04-2021, 09:18 AM
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They want to add Celtic and Rangers and at the same time reduce the league to 18 teams. So 4 teams would go. Where would Celtic or Rangers get relegated to if they came bottom? Not sure how this works.

So a club would need to be out of the bottom 7 to avoid relegation the season they made such a change. Gulp.....
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  #2366  
Old 22-04-2021, 09:23 AM
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This feels like it would have to be apart of a much bigger overhaul of the division system. You would essentially be looking at a professional pyramid of 94 teams so could do:

Super League - 18 Teams
Premier League - 18 Teams
Championship - 18 Teams
League One - 20 Teams
League Two - 20 Teams
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  #2367  
Old 22-04-2021, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin H View Post
They want to add Celtic and Rangers and at the same time reduce the league to 18 teams. So 4 teams would go. Where would Celtic or Rangers get relegated to if they came bottom? Not sure how this works.

So a club would need to be out of the bottom 7 to avoid relegation the season they made such a change. Gulp.....

One would hope the league would be expanded to 22 teams and then reduced to 18 over time
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  #2368  
Old 22-04-2021, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Martin H View Post
They want to add Celtic and Rangers and at the same time reduce the league to 18 teams. So 4 teams would go. Where would Celtic or Rangers get relegated to if they came bottom? Not sure how this works.

So a club would need to be out of the bottom 7 to avoid relegation the season they made such a change. Gulp.....
In the highly unlikely event of this happening you don't suddenly relegate everyone in one hit, you can do it over a couple of seasons plus reduce the number of promotion places. And not to mention the 14 other clubs would hardly vote for a system that would put them all at much higher risk of relegation than they already have.

Sounds like The Sun are gutted the ESL stories are drying up already so a bit more shit stirring is required
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  #2369  
Old 22-04-2021, 09:33 AM
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Can Hearts and Hibs be added for an entirely selfish reason for me to be able to walk to an away game.
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  #2370  
Old 22-04-2021, 09:37 AM
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Can Hearts and Hibs be added for an entirely selfish reason for me to be able to walk to an away game.
Well Hearts are not even in the SPL at the moment which would be some promotion for them
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  #2371  
Old 22-04-2021, 09:40 AM
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And the lack of any sanctions is exactly why I've now wanted this to happen.
The elite in football, politics, society etc always get away with atrocious behaviour and there is never any come-back or punishment.
This should have gone ahead - chaos for a few weeks but it was bound to go wrong for them in the end. Sanctions would have happened, players etc would have walked, clubs would have gone to shit.
But now? nothing.
If anything they will get some concessions from UEFA and the PL.
I think the clubs hope we can move on, but there has been a further awakening of malaise for these clubs. If the official bodies aren't going to punish them, then we need the fans to grow together to create change. It's a big ask but who knows. Problem is people just want to get back on with their lives and watch the football, but I do think they have done some irreparable damage to fan opinion.

If I was high up in the HF, I would probably think about trying to get other supporter groups together to mobilise against the breakaway clubs. Who knows you may even find allies with the clubs in question. Chelsea and Liverpool fans were not happy. We want the game to be given back to the supporters, well we have to take it back to a degree, and part of that is complaining about it and voting with our feet rather than just drink the medicine.
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  #2372  
Old 22-04-2021, 09:58 AM
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One would hope the league would be expanded to 22 teams and then reduced to 18 over time
One would hope that this nonsense is buried along with the ESL.
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  #2373  
Old 22-04-2021, 10:23 AM
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In the highly unlikely event of this happening you don't suddenly relegate everyone in one hit, you can do it over a couple of seasons plus reduce the number of promotion places. And not to mention the 14 other clubs would hardly vote for a system that would put them all at much higher risk of relegation than they already have.

Sounds like The Sun are gutted the ESL stories are drying up already so a bit more shit stirring is required
Nailed it. I don't really see which clubs stand to benefit from them joining.

With the Premier League money they would instantly be contenders for Europe which would hurt the likes of Arsenal, Leicester, West Ham, Everton etc. whilst making it harder for the bottom half teams to stay in the league. Don't see how they get to 14 votes.
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Old 22-04-2021, 10:29 AM
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So having knocked a ESL on the head, we're going to stab all those domestic Scottish fans in the back by taking Celtic & Rangers into the EPL?
I don't think so
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  #2375  
Old 22-04-2021, 10:41 AM
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And the Rangers and Celtic thing comes around every so often. I doubt the self serving Big 6 want them muscling in anyway - these are 2 clubs that if they had the kind of money available to English clubs, coupled with their big support, could attract major investment and big become big players in our league. For these very reasons, this is why it hasn't happened and will not happen.
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  #2376  
Old 22-04-2021, 10:45 AM
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Next step will be a Spanish / Italian league followed by a French / German league

Three super leagues, with the top four in each playing each other in a round robin end of season tournament

The ESL by stealth
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Old 22-04-2021, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Martin H View Post
They want to add Celtic and Rangers and at the same time reduce the league to 18 teams. So 4 teams would go. Where would Celtic or Rangers get relegated to if they came bottom? Not sure how this works.

So a club would need to be out of the bottom 7 to avoid relegation the season they made such a change. Gulp.....
The last time it was suggested that Rangers and Celtic joined the English league the other fans I worked with up there had a massive "off you go then" attitude. The practical problem was as follows:

The Scottish league would throw Celtic and Rangers out immediately mid season. They would not be able to join the English league next season because teams were already playing on the basis of three up, three down so nobody would sacrifice their possible or imminent chance of promotion at the end of the current season. So Celtic and Rangers would have to wait until the season after to join the English league and would therefore have the whole of next season without being in a league. Just playing a few exhibition matches for 12 months would mean their finances would be shot to pieces.
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Old 22-04-2021, 10:48 AM
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I don't think Chelsea or Man City have had any impact whatsoever on Barca or Real Madrid's inability to balance their books
Chelsea and Man City push up transfer fees and salaries.
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Old 22-04-2021, 10:49 AM
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Next step will be a Spanish / Italian league followed by a French / German league

Three super leagues, with the top four in each playing each other in a round robin end of season tournament

The ESL by stealth
unlikely without England - they want the TV rights that the PL teams enjoy. Don't think I have ever seen locals watching French football on my travels...
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Old 22-04-2021, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Martin H View Post
They want to add Celtic and Rangers and at the same time reduce the league to 18 teams. So 4 teams would go. Where would Celtic or Rangers get relegated to if they came bottom? Not sure how this works.

So a club would need to be out of the bottom 7 to avoid relegation the season they made such a change. Gulp.....
And last time they reduced the number of teams in the Premier League.....
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