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  #2461  
Old 23-04-2021, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Bipe View Post
Are we supposed to believe that this Ed Woodward clown spent two days agonising over whether he could get behind the ESL, before his conscience finally got the better of him and he resigned? I thought these hot-shot execs were used to assimilating the evidence and making decisions within a nano-second. Why was th decision so difficult for him?
No I don't think we are supposed to believe that. It was already known that he was leaving at the end of this season, even before this despicable business came about
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  #2462  
Old 23-04-2021, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by bubbs11 View Post
I don’t know about anyone else, but with the weekend match previews on the radio, I’m finding hard to stomach any normal football chat about any of the scum 6 games. Feels like it’s wrong to be talking about it
Karen Carney just said something about this on Five Live (pre the Arsenal v Everton game which she is co-commentating on). She said 'it doesn't feel right' being there.
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  #2463  
Old 23-04-2021, 07:19 PM
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European Super League contracts are LEAKED, revealing clubs pulling out face a £130MILLION 'break-up fee'


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Said this a whole back when the details where in the FT, it’s heavily waited towards Spain (including tax equalisation). No idea why the English clubs signed up, wait a few years and they would be in a much stronger position.
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Old 23-04-2021, 07:21 PM
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Starting to look like a desperate attempt at a shakedown from those 2, who it seems are in very deep financial shit.
Good.
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  #2465  
Old 23-04-2021, 07:26 PM
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Karen Carney just said something about this on Five Live (pre the Arsenal v Everton game which she is co-commentating on). She said 'it doesn't feel right' being there.
Well done Karen Carney; because the Spurs and Chelsea loving hosts of the show I was listening to didn't skip a beat.
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  #2466  
Old 23-04-2021, 07:31 PM
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Starting to look like a desperate attempt at a shakedown from those 2, who it seems are in very deep financial shit.
They’re in serious trouble, it’s brilliant to see.
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  #2467  
Old 23-04-2021, 08:40 PM
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It was an easy win for them to speak out on the side of “fans”, knowing full well they wouldn’t need to actually do anything.

As soon as Boris spoke out against it, I started to think it was a good idea.
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TBH there were calls from all over the place for them to get involved. I am not sure quite what they are expected to do other than reinforce the national outcry. The importance of football makes it difficult to ignore completely and maybe that’s emphasised more during the Covid period. Maybe even the tax from the total wider business makes it important enough to be express interest.
Sure, it might be popular - it's certainly populist - but politicians on all sides were jumping up and down talking about bans, new regulators, retrospective legislation, and so on. And I'm playing devil's advocate here, but what's so different in principle from, say, a film studio overpaying actors and then deciding they need to make Hollywood blockbusters instead of kitchen sink dramas to make ends meet?

Maybe that's not a very good analogy... but what I'm trying to get across is that football is a private industry in a free country. Sure, they are subject to the law of the land like anyone else, PLC clubs have stock market rules, and all the rest of it, but fundamentally it's all private, isn't it? We're not talking about genuine issues of public interest, such as crowd safety or player welfare. By what right does the government to tell clubs which league to play in? Would it do the same for rugby and cricket? Does football enjoy legal perks which imply there's a quid pro quo?
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Old 23-04-2021, 08:45 PM
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I'm coming round to the thinking that football clubs need to be protected against excessive greed at the expense of fans. Football has a massive influence on peoples lives and are hubs for their community. It can't be right that there isn't some government oversight to protect those fans and communities from the greed of the owners.

You can't build an extension on your house without government approval. That's because they need to check that you haven't negativity impacted neighbours / the local community. You get listed buildings or conservation areas with special rules. It seems mad to me that we wouldn't have some controls in place specifically for football clubs. We don't want to get to a place where teams are going bust, as a handful of the big ones have buggered off to a superleague and pulled the financial rug up from under everyone else.
But you're talking about different things - football clubs have to go through the planning system if they want to build (and don't we know it!). That's different to being influential though. If a club prices its fans out of attendance, that's shitty and unfortunate, but there are other clubs or sports to get involved with.

Does the government get involved when your favourite band splits up? Or favorite crime author starts writing romance novels instead? What business is it of theirs if a club plays in a different league?
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  #2469  
Old 23-04-2021, 08:51 PM
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You don't think it has huge cultural significance?
It does, of course. And the ESL would have been horrible for lots of reasons, and I'm very glad it's not happening. But something is just bugging me that it's not a thing that has anything to do with governments - even if we were on the same side in this case.

Unless football (specifically the scum 6) have benefitted from government policies somehow or other which gives politicians a justification to get involved. And that's what I want to know. I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but could be my ignorance.
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Old 23-04-2021, 08:56 PM
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Because government is (or should be) the will of the people. They have been elected to represent us and as such represent every football supporter in the UK. We might say that the FA are the regulatory body under which this should be adjudicated but they have shown that they do not have the power to act on our behalf. Government does.

Not everything is private. Some things must be shared and maintained in our society for everyone. Government of the people by the people is the ultimate authority to ensure these things aren't lost. The problem is that our governments keep on failing to do so.
Government has its limits in a free society. We have rights to form and join sporting clubs and associations.

I'm not a boxing fan, but in essence the ESL was akin to setting up a rival organisation - the WBA to the WBC, or whatever they are called. Should ministers have the right to stop sportsmen setting up different codes? Prevented the creation of rugby league?
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  #2471  
Old 23-04-2021, 09:01 PM
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It matters to constituents so politicians feel a need to speak out. I always think our own survival in 2010 was in part brought about by political pressure being put on Lioyds TSB. It wasn't a good look for a publicly owned Bank to take down a football club. In practal terms there may not be much they can do but heap more pressure on those involved which can be undererstimated at times
On that score, politicians weren't contemplating retrospective legislation to punish anyone for doing something that was legal when they did it.
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  #2472  
Old 23-04-2021, 09:04 PM
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  #2473  
Old 23-04-2021, 09:16 PM
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Government has its limits in a free society. We have rights to form and join sporting clubs and associations.

I'm not a boxing fan, but in essence the ESL was akin to setting up a rival organisation - the WBA to the WBC, or whatever they are called. Should ministers have the right to stop sportsmen setting up different codes? Prevented the creation of rugby league?
Well done, four successive posts with 24 carat gold BS. Is that a new record ?
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  #2474  
Old 23-04-2021, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by DANGERMOUSE View Post
Sure, it might be popular - it's certainly populist - but politicians on all sides were jumping up and down talking about bans, new regulators, retrospective legislation, and so on. And I'm playing devil's advocate here, but what's so different in principle from, say, a film studio overpaying actors and then deciding they need to make Hollywood blockbusters instead of kitchen sink dramas to make ends meet?

Maybe that's not a very good analogy... but what I'm trying to get across is that football is a private industry in a free country. Sure, they are subject to the law of the land like anyone else, PLC clubs have stock market rules, and all the rest of it, but fundamentally it's all private, isn't it? We're not talking about genuine issues of public interest, such as crowd safety or player welfare. By what right does the government to tell clubs which league to play in? Would it do the same for rugby and cricket? Does football enjoy legal perks which imply there's a quid pro quo?
As I said in my earlier response they have little room for manoeuvre other than reflect the mood to the various parties and encourage them to listen and respond. The reality is that they can exert some informal pressure but they can’t directly intervene, or at least I can’t think how they could. Equally I don’t think they could sit there silently without some sort of response in the circumstances either.
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  #2475  
Old 23-04-2021, 10:20 PM
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More work to be done on holding these six clubs accountable for what they did.

Points deductions, fines and banning from domestic competitions should all still be on the table.
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Old 23-04-2021, 10:32 PM
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The officials at the six clubs who plotted the European Super League breakaway should be removed from their jobs, according to the other Premier League clubs.

The 14 teams not involved are calling on the owners of Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United and Tottenham to "do the right thing" because they will never be able to trust or deal with their executives again.



It is unworkable from now on. How can you sit in a meeting and discuss future plans with people that have blatantly lied to you for god knows how long? All scum six owners have to stand down.
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  #2477  
Old 23-04-2021, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by DANGERMOUSE View Post
But you're talking about different things - football clubs have to go through the planning system if they want to build (and don't we know it!). That's different to being influential though. If a club prices its fans out of attendance, that's shitty and unfortunate, but there are other clubs or sports to get involved with.

Does the government get involved when your favourite band splits up? Or favorite crime author starts writing romance novels instead? What business is it of theirs if a club plays in a different league?
I do see where you are coming from, but your examples dont compare really. Football has a deep cultural significant over centuries, linked to the geographical make up of England and it’s traditions. Im not saying that government should get involved but a band splitting up doesnt even come close as a comparison.

The only argument I can see for government involvement is that this is something so culturally significant, so opposed by the entire population and so glaringly wrong as things go, to deem it their jurisdiction. I dont know enough about government to really say and I know that we are a liberal country and dont get involved in business, but that is always the argument, is this a business or ‘the people’s game’... it was robbery and unprecedented.
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Old 23-04-2021, 11:54 PM
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It does, of course. And the ESL would have been horrible for lots of reasons, and I'm very glad it's not happening. But something is just bugging me that it's not a thing that has anything to do with governments - even if we were on the same side in this case.

Unless football (specifically the scum 6) have benefitted from government policies somehow or other which gives politicians a justification to get involved. And that's what I want to know. I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but could be my ignorance.
I disagree. I think when the owners of industry do something that is detrimental to all other stakeholders then I don't see why government intervention should be an issue. It's what should happen.
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Old 24-04-2021, 03:58 AM
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Well done Karen Carney; because the Spurs and Chelsea loving hosts of the show I was listening to didn't skip a beat.
Just listened back to what she said:

"Even driving in though, you can't ignore it Darren. A journey that takes me usually an hour and a half has taken me three hours

I wouldn't say it's hostile out there, but it's very … people aren't happy. I don't know about you Ali, but there's a bit of an aura here, I don't feel comfortable being here if I'm honest, it feels really really weird."


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Old 24-04-2021, 04:48 AM
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Just listened back to what she said:

"Even driving in though, you can't ignore it Darren. A journey that takes me usually an hour and a half has taken me three hours

I wouldn't say it's hostile out there, but it's very … people aren't happy. I don't know about you Ali, but there's a bit of an aura here, I don't feel comfortable being here if I'm honest, it feels really really weird."


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Cheers Louis. She actually says it twice but each time Fletcher and Jeans don’t get or don’t want to take on what she’s saying. Jeans again banging the drum that sanctions shouldn’t happen against the scum 6 as would hurt the fans. Grrrr
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