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  #5541  
Old 10-04-2021, 08:25 PM
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It probably is. Iím not convinced of Lampard as a manager yet, but also donít think he was given time given the turnover of players they had. He was still finding his best 11 when sacked.
I'd argue Chelseas board undermined him. Did they need £211M of players. Seems to me his first year was the first bit of consistent squad building there for a long time

Thought this was quite illuminating

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Sounds to me like Chelsea bought players not suited to their managers system and he broke his own working system trying to fit them in.
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  #5542  
Old 10-04-2021, 08:27 PM
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I'd argue Chelseas board undermined him. Did they need £211M of players. Seems to me his first year was the first bit of consistent squad building there for a long time

Thought this was quite illuminating

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Sounds to me like Chelsea bought players not suited to their managers system and he broke his own working system trying to fit them in.
Werner hasnít improved at all, even with a German manager
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  #5543  
Old 10-04-2021, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by red&blue_moomin View Post
I'd argue Chelseas board undermined him. Did they need £211M of players. Seems to me his first year was the first bit of consistent squad building there for a long time

Thought this was quite illuminating

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Sounds to me like Chelsea bought players not suited to their managers system and he broke his own working system trying to fit them in.
Good read.

Possibly, I wouldnít be pissed off I we appointed just have reservations. I also wouldnít be hugely surprised if he was the man next year.
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  #5544  
Old 10-04-2021, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by red&blue_moomin View Post
I'd argue Chelseas board undermined him. Did they need £211M of players. Seems to me his first year was the first bit of consistent squad building there for a long time

Thought this was quite illuminating

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Sounds to me like Chelsea bought players not suited to their managers system and he broke his own working system trying to fit them in.
That article just seems like a very long winded way of saying “Lampard’s only plan was to spam crosses to Abraham or Giroud.”
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  #5545  
Old 10-04-2021, 08:36 PM
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Imagine that Frank Lampard was a mediocre player with no connection to Chelsea - would he have even been appointed as Chelsea boss given his average performance at Derby? Why on earth would we want to appoint him? I get that people think we need a new manager but can’t we try and get someone better than Roy?
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  #5546  
Old 10-04-2021, 08:41 PM
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Imagine that Frank Lampard was a mediocre player with no connection to Chelsea - would he have even been appointed as Chelsea boss given his average performance at Derby? Why on earth would we want to appoint him? I get that people think we need a new manager but canít we try and get someone better than Roy?
Yep, he was totally inexperienced for the Chelsea job. He may become a decent manager in time but he needs to go and learn his trade first.
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  #5547  
Old 10-04-2021, 08:43 PM
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Imagine that Frank Lampard was a mediocre player with no connection to Chelsea - would he have even been appointed as Chelsea boss given his average performance at Derby? Why on earth would we want to appoint him? I get that people think we need a new manager but canít we try and get someone better than Roy?
The thing is he didnít do that badly, top four in his first season on a budget

Sacked on his first dodgy run, Klopp lost six at home on the bounce at Liverpool no way the Russian would have accepted that

Difficult to judge managers over short runs.
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  #5548  
Old 10-04-2021, 08:45 PM
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That article just seems like a very long winded way of saying ďLampardís only plan was to spam crosses to Abraham or Giroud.Ē

We have a striker that thrives off crosses FFS. He used a double pivot, aggressive pressing. His team before the spending spree had high distance covered and was just behind Liverpool and City for pressing. He also used his full backs. I think that sounds like a decent way of playing.

We don't press at all barely run and it ****s us up all the time.
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  #5549  
Old 10-04-2021, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by beef View Post
Imagine that Frank Lampard was a mediocre player with no connection to Chelsea - would he have even been appointed as Chelsea boss given his average performance at Derby? Why on earth would we want to appoint him? I get that people think we need a new manager but can’t we try and get someone better than Roy?
Did you bother to read that article? If that was about Howe everyone would be wanking themselves silly. That is everything that Roy is not doing for us.

Before Chelsea chucked the cheque book about and at Derby his teams had high distances covered, high pressing and recoveries of the ball runs from midfield. Lots of crosses. Single striker with wide forwards and fullbacks.
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  #5550  
Old 10-04-2021, 08:47 PM
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I’m warming to the idea of Lampard. He would definitely back the youth and I’m sure he would attract good players based on his connections.

It could work for us, “Out with the old, and in with the youth”
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  #5551  
Old 10-04-2021, 08:52 PM
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Iím warming to the idea of Lampard. He would definitely back the youth and Iím sure he would attract good players based on his connections.

It could work for us, ďOut with the old, and in with the youthĒ
We need continued stability and I can't think of another manger out there who would use as as stepping stone more than Lampard would.
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  #5552  
Old 10-04-2021, 08:56 PM
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We need continued stability and I can't think of another manger out there who would use as as stepping stone more than Lampard would.
Weíd only be a stepping stone if he did amazingly well. Probably would need to get us into Europe or win a cup. Iím happy for us to be a stepping stone.
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  #5553  
Old 10-04-2021, 08:56 PM
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We need continued stability and I can't think of another manger out there who would use as as stepping stone more than Lampard would.
Hold on if he does well enough to get another big club that means we'll be a Europa league club. That would open up another level of manager for us. Think that's ok until the new stand is finished
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  #5554  
Old 10-04-2021, 09:08 PM
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We have a striker that thrives off crosses FFS. He used a double pivot, aggressive pressing. His team before the spending spree had high distance covered and was just behind Liverpool and City for pressing. He also used his full backs. I think that sounds like a decent way of playing.

We don't press at all barely run and it ****s us up all the time.
I was more criticising his time at Chelsea than critiquing his palace credentials.

But in that case, we don’t have enough players capable of aggressive pressing, or good attacking full backs outside of an ageing, possibly leaving PVA. And 50 mil won’t be enough to make it so.

There’s exceptions to that rule. Bielsa, and to a lesser extent Hassenhuttl have coached successful pressing football into the most average of footballers. But there’s little evidence that Lampard is that level yet, and he’s certainly nowhere near as experienced.

Last edited by CP-RJW; 10-04-2021 at 09:19 PM.
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  #5555  
Old 10-04-2021, 09:21 PM
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I was more criticising his time at Chelsea than critiquing his palace credentials.

But in that case, we don’t have enough players capable of aggressive pressing, or good attacking full backs outside of an ageing, possibly leaving PVA. And 50 mil won’t be enough to make it so.

There’s exceptions to that the rule. Bielsa, and to a lesser extent Hassenhuttl have coached successful pressing football into the most average of footballers. But there’s little evidence that Lampard is that level yet, and he’s certainly nowhere near as experienced.
He did it both at Derby and Chelsea. That suggests he is able to translate those ideas over the course of a preseason and first half of a season. It's more than Roy has ever managed. Howe failed at Burnley that's a concern because that suggests he couldn't translate his ideas at two different clubs.

I'd suggest with 13 players out of contract we have an opportunity to fix that. We want to lower the age of the team for that high energy pressing and running. I wouldn't assume Fergie, Clyne, Hannam and Mitchell can't do that either.

You'd probably want to keep Clyne, Benteke, Andros and Gazza I reckon.

I reckon we need six to seven players I think given that we spent less than £25M to bring in six players this year I think it's doable.
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  #5556  
Old 10-04-2021, 09:25 PM
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He did it both at Derby and Chelsea. That suggests he is able to translate those ideas over the course of a preseason and first half of a season. It's more than Roy has ever managed. Howe failed at Burnley that's a concern because that suggests he couldn't translate his ideas at two different clubs.
You’ve completely missed my point. Chelsea and Derby had two of the best squads in their respective divisions. We do not have that luxury.

Roy doesn’t care about aggressive pressing, and I don’t care about Howe, although he’s still higher than Lampard on my prospective managers list.

Last edited by CP-RJW; 10-04-2021 at 09:28 PM.
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  #5557  
Old 10-04-2021, 09:33 PM
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You’ve completely missed my point. Chelsea and Derby had two of the best squads in their respective divisions. We do not have that luxury.

Roy doesn’t care about aggressive pressing, and I don’t care about Howe, although he’s still higher than Lampard on my prospective managers list.

We have 13 players out of contract from the squad and then a further two on expiring deals. That's an opportunity to fix our squad and set out on a direction suited to the league and not the early 90s which is what our current manager is obsessed with.

Roy doesn't apparently care about winning football matches at the moment either.

Dyche is the wrong answer if we want to significantly reduce the age of the squad. Do you remember the bitching when Burnley released their experienced players and wanted him to promote youth. He chucked his toys out of the pram.

Lampard bases his tactics on 4231/433 what we've all been crying out for. But he will also use a 442 so he's flexible with his formations.

Howe is another 442 merchant like Dyche. Do we really want another manager that is inflexible over formation? Given how the league is becoming more diverse.
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  #5558  
Old 10-04-2021, 09:43 PM
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At the point now where I don't even care who it is. Lampard, Dyche, Howe - whoever.

We just need some new energy.
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Old 10-04-2021, 09:45 PM
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Roy doesn't apparently care about winning football matches at the moment either.

Dyche is the wrong answer if we want to significantly reduce the age of the squad. Do you remember the bitching when Burnley released their experienced players and wanted him to promote youth. He chucked his toys out of the pram.
Dunno about youth teams, but Dyche has a pretty good record of signing players in that 23-25 year old range. Besides, I’d assume that if he came to palace he’d have to work with Dougie, who seems to have us targeting younger players already. I’m personally optimistic about our transfer policy, regardless of who’s in charge.

When it comes to bringing through our under 18’s and 23’s, I don’t think there’s any prospective British manager who has a track record of doing that at a team like Palace. No, Lampard playing Mason Mount and co at Chelsea is not the same.

Last edited by CP-RJW; 10-04-2021 at 09:47 PM.
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Old 10-04-2021, 09:58 PM
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Lampard bases his tactics on 4231/433 what we've all been crying out for. But he will also use a 442 so he's flexible with his formations.

Howe is another 442 merchant like Dyche. Do we really want another manager that is inflexible over formation? Given how the league is becoming more diverse.
The incessant formation chat is very football manager. I don’t think they’re as important as people make out, or I used to make out in my younger, more naive years. I’d hire Lampard tomorrow if he was the second coming of Hassenhuttl that you’re making him out to be, a manager who only plays 4-4-2. Yet he’s clearly worlds apart from Dyche, despite the same formation.

Tactics>>>>>Formations.

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