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  #1081  
Old 10-04-2021, 10:09 AM
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I can't off the top of my head think of another manager who has taken two different clubs to their highest ever (and not equal highest ever) league postion. Clough did with Derby and Forest, but Derby also won the league after he left.
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  #1082  
Old 10-04-2021, 10:24 AM
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Coppell writes about this season in today’s Chelsea programme that commemorates the 30yr anniversary. One interesting bit....As the team walked up to collect the ZDS cup, Coppell turned to Noades and quietly said, ‘This is the first of many.’

Noades then does a Mr Burns laugh and phones David Dein.
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  #1083  
Old 10-04-2021, 11:22 AM
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This is also the week that The FA announced plans for a new "super league" of eighteen clubs to replace the Football League First Division as the highest division of English football. The soon to be Premier League.

It was a plan hatched by the chairmen of the so called big 5 at the time with FA chairman Bert Millichip. They realised that there was riches to be made from TV money and sponsorship. The same thing was happening with UEFA and the new chairman Lennart Johansson. They knew that a Champions League system would mean the big clubs played more games which equalled a lot more cash. So it was important to have all the major European clubs competing; which is why Johansson, the English FA and Liverpool conspired to rescind the remaining two years on Liverpool’s European ban.
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  #1084  
Old 11-04-2021, 01:35 PM
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On 13 April 1991 we played out a 0-0 draw at home to Aston Villa. The main thing I can remember from this was the rousing reception given to the team before kick off, as we basked in the glory of our ZDS triumph the previous week. It felt good to be behind a team which seemed to be clearly on the up (!!)

But there was still work to be done in the league in order to ensure European football the following season, on the back of two successive defeats. My memory is that we tried hard to turn things around in this game but were met with an obdurate defensive display from the visitors. Unlike when we played them at Villa Park, they were in no sort of form having taken just two points from their previous four games (including a 5-0 drubbing at champions elect Arsenal) and were slipping dangerously close to the relegation places. Indeed they would win only one of their last ten games as their season unravelled, and this game turned out to be the only point they earned in a five game run which included further thrashings 1-5 at home to Man City and 5-2 away to Leeds. It was the only clean sheet for them in their final 18 games of the season and I suppose that illustrates why we eventually fell short - seems odd to say it but we lacked firepower in addition to the main duo of Wright and Bright. We only conceded one goal more than Liverpool in second place come the end of the season, but scored 27 fewer goals. In fact in the second half of the season we averaged about a goal a game, which was nowhere near good enough to sustain any sort of title challenge.
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  #1085  
Old 11-04-2021, 07:21 PM
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PALACE 0
A VILLA 0

Att: 18,331

Palace: Martyn. Humphrey. Shaw. Pardew. Young. Thorn. Salako. Thomas. Bright. Wright. McGoldrick. Subs: Collymore (for McGoldrick). Bodin. (Unused)


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  #1086  
Old 11-04-2021, 07:33 PM
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Not a game i recall a lot about other as others have said the celebration of the Cup triumph.
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  #1087  
Old 11-04-2021, 07:42 PM
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Very much ‘after the Lord Mayor’s show.’ Teams really came and put up quite a defence in stifling us. It was a mark of how far we’d come but was hugely frustrating. As Bipe alluded to, although the likes of Thomas, Gray, McGoldrick and Salako chipped in with some goals, it wasn’t quite enough to push us on further. Nice to see the youth team parade the cup at half time, with two friends who I played alongside throughout childhood among the players.

The final article is a letter from the magazine ‘90 minutes’. The narrative was certainly on the way to being set in stone that we were just a bunch of thugs. Started after the 1990 Cup Final replay; egged on by the partisan Denis Law, and now fans were following the beat. It was to become a crescendo by the beginning of the following season with Everton crying to the press about our agricultural tactics, with even Vinny Jones calling us ‘Horrible bast*rds!’ Then of course came the Noades racist nonsense and the football world really had a chance to put the boot in. It really felt like we’d trod on far too many big toes and the media was unsettling us enough to put us back in our place. Unfortunately it worked. Wright said afterwards that certainly the racist furore rocked the boat enough for a club like Arsenal to come along in timely fashion and take him away.
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  #1088  
Old 13-04-2021, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by andyocpfc View Post
Was the Man Utd 3-0 game the game we were chanting "Barcelona"?.
Embarrassed to say 'Yes' to this one.

I was amongst those signing this rather weak chant

'Barca Barcelona' #cringe
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  #1089  
Old 13-04-2021, 08:49 AM
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That is a very good point - there was certainly a feel of make or break about that season, with the fear that our prized assets might move on if we ended up in the second division for yet another season. We were languishing in mid-table and well off the pace as late as March, then the amazing run started with 11 wins and 2 draws in our last 15 regular season games (inevitably, one of the two defeats was against Shrewsbury). Would the players have been as motivated to keep that run going if there were no play-offs and the prospects of getting to third place (at least in the early stages of that run) were so remote?
Never underestimate the power of that dull 1-0 win v Sunderland on March 18th. When Brighty stepped up in the 72nd minute with a penalty the tension was ridiculous. Still remember the roar and relief when it went in. It honestly felt right at the moment but that we were back in business and so it proved. I had various 50p bets at school (big bucks at that time!) that we'd win 6 out 7. People thought I was insane. Turns out we won 8 out of the next 9!

I 100% 'knew' we were going up following a Palace News article that season entitled 69-79-89? From that point I was convinced in that 10 years cycle - not very scientfic I know and it didn;t help us in 99 either!!
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  #1090  
Old 13-04-2021, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by singapore eagle View Post
I've never thought of it like that, but this is a good point.

This was the year that Sheffield Wednesday won the League Cup from the second division. And if you look at the last four in the League Cup, or the last four in the FA Cup for that matter, the teams were no stronger than the last four in the ZDS. We just won the 'wrong' cup.
Palace v Everton as the final was about as strong a final as the ZDS ever had.

This was a final that had seen Middlesbrough, Reading, Luton, Blackburn, a piss poor Man City and even the Clowns all in the previous 5 years.

To have the recent Champs and 2nd best team of the previous 8 years + that season's 3rd placed team involved was a high quality final.
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  #1091  
Old 13-04-2021, 09:01 AM
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As for the Villa game, it was one of the few where Ian Wright was shackled. Paul McGrath was top quality that day. In fact, noticing McGrath's class saved me getting a kicking.

I was travelling home alone and waiting at Norwood Junction when four Villa hoolies saw me all coloured up and surrounded me. I got asked that killer question - 'What did you think of the game?' One wrong answer and it wasn't going to be pretty, I knew the drill.

I honestly said 'McGrath is one of only two people to have Ian Wright in his pocket this season'

'Who's the other one?'

'Des Walker'

Ooops, wrong answer!

'Do you want to change your answer?'

'Who are the two players who've had Wright in their pocket?'

'Paul McGrath home game & Paul McGrath away game'

'Right answer'

Avoided a kicking, they laughed and the train arrived on Platform 1, where I got on but sat away from them, where I was then treated to my first ever hearing of 'No surrender' and 'Aint no black in the Union Jack'.

Charming fellows!
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  #1092  
Old 13-04-2021, 09:06 AM
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I can't off the top of my head think of another manager who has taken two different clubs to their highest ever (and not equal highest ever) league postion. Clough did with Derby and Forest, but Derby also won the league after he left.
Been a favourite of mine for years, this manager question. You are right with Clough & Coppell. Over the years I've identified two more.

Alex Ferguson - Man United & Aberdeen

Alf Ramsey - Ipswich & England

Any others?

Peter Taylor was on course at one point when he had a claim on Gillingham and was on his way to having a claim on the Hull City one as well. Fair to say he was the best manager at each club at the time he was there but has been surpassed
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  #1093  
Old 13-04-2021, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbs11 View Post
The same thing was happening with UEFA and the new chairman Lennart Johansson. They knew that a Champions League system would mean the big clubs played more games which equalled a lot more cash. So it was important to have all the major European clubs competing; which is why Johansson, the English FA and Liverpool conspired to rescind the remaining two years on Liverpool’s European ban.
It's been good research by you to piece this altogether, culminating with your excellent video last year. I'll never stop banging on about this until the day I die - Palace were absolutely robbed.

We'd have matched at least the run Liverpool mustered (easy teams up until the QF defeat to Genoa) just like we'd have reached the Cup Winners Cup Final (I won't guarantee we'd have beaten Barcelona) given the easy run United had in 1991 (Wrexham FFS!)
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  #1094  
Old 13-04-2021, 09:20 AM
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We could have easily made that final!
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Old 13-04-2021, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Grim Reaper View Post
Been a favourite of mine for years, this manager question. You are right with Clough & Coppell. Over the years I've identified two more.



Alex Ferguson - Man United & Aberdeen



Alf Ramsey - Ipswich & England



Any others?



Peter Taylor was on course at one point when he had a claim on Gillingham and was on his way to having a claim on the Hull City one as well. Fair to say he was the best manager at each club at the time he was there but has been surpassed
Ferguson is out based on stevek's criteria - unless you are assuming that football started with the advent of the premier league in 1992?!
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  #1096  
Old 13-04-2021, 10:34 AM
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Searching my brain on the stevek question but can’t think of anyone.

However, if you include international football; Alf Ramsey won the league for Ipswich in 61/62 and of course the World Cup for England in ‘66. Both feats never equalled.
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Old 13-04-2021, 06:01 PM
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I was going for English league only - but otherwise Ferguson and Ramsey are good shouts.

As for shackling Wright, the one centre back who consistently did it was Tony Adams.
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Old 14-04-2021, 07:46 AM
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So eyes down look in for the top ten movers and shakers week ending 13 April 1991:

The Whole Of The Moon by The Waterboys - this had been a minor hit first time around but it rightly found a much wider audience on re-release, getting up to number three. It epitomised the band's 'big music' style, with a Phil Spectoresque kitchen sink production and epic lyrics. There are several versions as to how and why Mike Scott composed this song. My personal favourite has always been that he intended it as a paean to Prince, but much more prosaically it's been claimed that he churned it out in half an hour to show off to his girlfriend how easy he found it to write songs. Anyway I still love this one despite hearign it millions of times.

Rescue Me by Madonna - middle of the road dance / pop, like 95% of her output there's nothing particularly memorable or impressive about it.

The Size Of A Cow by The Wonder Stuff - they had been popular on the indie circuit for a few years but like James a couple of weeks previously, this was their big breakthrough hit into the mainstream. I was never a fan - with all the fiddles and whatnot it veered much to close to Levellers territory - and I found their singer Miles Hunt pretty annoying.

Anthem by N-Joi - a nightclub staple of the era but it hasn't stood the test of time.

Deep, Deep Trouble by The Simpsons - inevitably the cashing in continued after their first song went all the way to the top. This was less successful, peaking at number 7, and more sloppily delivered.

Love And Kisses by Dannii Minogue - Dannii followed on the coat-tails of sister Kylie, with more limited success although she chalked up a few hits. In later years I woudl go on to develop a massive dad-crush on Dannii when forced to watch the X-Factor with my daughter. But her music was crap if I'm being honest with you.
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Old 15-04-2021, 09:51 AM
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On 17 April 1991 we had a midweek game at home to Spurs, I assume the original fixture would have been postponed due to Spurs' run in the FA Cup - they would go on to beat Forest in the final. This was sustaining the 'Gazzamania' hype and he put in some starring performances for them during the cup run although of course it all went horribly wrong for him in the final.

As a result of this though their league form had tailed off considerably and in fact when you look at their record through the season it is really quite alarming. From 1 December onwards they would collect just three league wins and 20 points in their remaining 24 games. Pathetic relegation form to follow their incredibly strong start to the season of just one defeat in their first 14 matches. That was Spurs back in those days and I'm pleased to say that to an extent it still is, hence their failure to win the league since 1961 despite their protestations that they are one of the 'big clubs'.

Anyway, true to form Spurs succumbed in this one and we were able to keep our good run of results against them going with a 1-0 win. Eric Young notched our goal and it was another workmanlike performance to keep us comfortably in third place. I can't remember exactly when the realisation that we would be robbed of our UEFA Cup spot set in but it must have been some time around this game, maybe Bubbs could enlighten us. Certainly we all knew that the jig was up by the time we faced Liverpool at Anfield only a week later - at least that's my recollection.
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Old 15-04-2021, 10:07 AM
N Herts Eagle N Herts Eagle is offline
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Originally Posted by Bipe View Post
On 17 April 1991 we had a midweek game at home to Spurs, I assume the original fixture would have been postponed due to Spurs' run in the FA Cup - they would go on to beat Forest in the final. This was sustaining the 'Gazzamania' hype and he put in some starring performances for them during the cup run although of course it all went horribly wrong for him in the final.

As a result of this though their league form had tailed off considerably and in fact when you look at their record through the season it is really quite alarming. From 1 December onwards they would collect just three league wins and 20 points in their remaining 24 games. Pathetic relegation form to follow their incredibly strong start to the season of just one defeat in their first 14 matches. That was Spurs back in those days and I'm pleased to say that to an extent it still is, hence their failure to win the league since 1961 despite their protestations that they are one of the 'big clubs'.

Anyway, true to form Spurs succumbed in this one and we were able to keep our good run of results against them going with a 1-0 win. Eric Young notched our goal and it was another workmanlike performance to keep us comfortably in third place. I can't remember exactly when the realisation that we would be robbed of our UEFA Cup spot set in but it must have been some time around this game, maybe Bubbs could enlighten us. Certainly we all knew that the jig was up by the time we faced Liverpool at Anfield only a week later - at least that's my recollection.
Eric scored and i collected my winnings the next day. Another trip after work that was always tough as it was traffic jam time.
Its around this time i had a dream as clear as anything. I woke up wrote down the score.....the opponents. Will get to it the dream and what happened latter in the thread.
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