Home | Forums | Gallery | Twitter
 
CPFC BBS  

Go Back   CPFC BBS Ľ Off Topic Ľ General Chit Chat

Notices

General Chit Chat Off topic conversations. Please do not post CPFC or sport related threads here

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #94461  
Old 13-04-2022, 07:57 PM
917L's Avatar
917L 917L is offline
Zuffenhausen
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Stuttgart
Age: 61
Posts: 47,499
Rep Power: 21474857
917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by ANDYEAGLE View Post
651 recorded deaths from covid yesterday. Looks like deaths are going through the roof.
Hardly mentioned at all anywhere. Has to be a worry.
From?
__________________
Run Silent, Run Deep
Reply With Quote
  #94462  
Old 13-04-2022, 08:20 PM
ANDYEAGLE ANDYEAGLE is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: BECKENHAM
Posts: 8,431
Rep Power: 14431380
ANDYEAGLE came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietANDYEAGLE came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietANDYEAGLE came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietANDYEAGLE came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietANDYEAGLE came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietANDYEAGLE came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietANDYEAGLE came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietANDYEAGLE came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietANDYEAGLE came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietANDYEAGLE came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietANDYEAGLE came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally Posted by 917L View Post
From?
Guardian
Reply With Quote
  #94463  
Old 13-04-2022, 08:34 PM
Philipw Philipw is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,061
Rep Power: 17123382
Philipw came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPhilipw came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPhilipw came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPhilipw came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPhilipw came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPhilipw came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPhilipw came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPhilipw came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPhilipw came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPhilipw came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPhilipw came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally Posted by congress View Post
in this country we have let it slack in regards to prevention, watching a lot of sport from Europe, most of the countries with spectators indoors everyone is wearing masks in the crowd.
Youíre right on masks across Europe versus UK. However, jury out as to the effectiveness in non clinical settings. Latest comparative case data seems to show UK cases per head of population lower than most of Europe (half of France and Germany), despite still having the highest testing rate (bar Italy, Austria and Greece)

To view the link you have to Register or Login

To view the link you have to Register or Login
Reply With Quote
  #94464  
Old 13-04-2022, 09:40 PM
917L's Avatar
917L 917L is offline
Zuffenhausen
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Stuttgart
Age: 61
Posts: 47,499
Rep Power: 21474857
917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by ANDYEAGLE View Post
Guardian
I meant From Covid

Or do you mean died within 28 days of a Positive Covid test, which is an entirely different thing
__________________
Run Silent, Run Deep
Reply With Quote
  #94465  
Old 13-04-2022, 10:58 PM
Blind_Eagle's Avatar
Blind_Eagle Blind_Eagle is offline
Dis-Member
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: The Royalty Fishery
Age: 62
Posts: 39,421
Rep Power: 21474860
Blind_Eagle Sam the man is hereBlind_Eagle Sam the man is hereBlind_Eagle Sam the man is hereBlind_Eagle Sam the man is hereBlind_Eagle Sam the man is hereBlind_Eagle Sam the man is hereBlind_Eagle Sam the man is hereBlind_Eagle Sam the man is hereBlind_Eagle Sam the man is hereBlind_Eagle Sam the man is hereBlind_Eagle Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind_Eagle View Post
I canít get my head around the current NHS policy towards covid. Two months ago I had an operation and was required to have a test two days before the op. Since then Iíve been attending the same hospital twice a week but with no requirement to take a subsequent test at all.

My wife started her course of radiotherapy last week and, like me, was required to take a covid test two days before the first day of treatment. She is now scheduled to attend every three days for the next couple of weeks but again no further tests are required.

Whatís the point of doing the initial test and then not bothering for future appointments spread over several weeks? It makes absolutely no sense to me at all.
To add to this, my wifeís next radiotherapy session was scheduled for tomorrow afternoon but itís now been brought forward to tomorrow morning as all the afternoon slots have now been dedicated to those poor sods who have cancer and covid.

Weíve absolutely no problem whatsoever with the change, covid is no reason to stop treating cancer sufferers. But it does reinforce my question as to why the NHS demand a covid test before oneís first operation and then donít bother asking for another however long your hospital treatment takes.

It makes absolutely no sense at all to me, maybe Gonzo could explain whatís going on?
__________________
Well swivel on this one, because Crystal Palace sell 34 different designs of hat and cap. Thirty-f*cking-four?!
Reply With Quote
  #94466  
Old 13-04-2022, 11:05 PM
Hpalace Hpalace is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 18,953
Rep Power: 21474843
Hpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by 917L View Post
I meant From Covid

Or do you mean died within 28 days of a Positive Covid test, which is an entirely different thing
Itís only an entirely different thing for the purposes of trying to downtalk covid. People died from pneumonia as the primary cause of death pre 2020 when in fact it was the cancer that debilitated their body enough to let pneumonia do itís job. Individuals questioned this occasionally but everyone accepted that the doctors were right to put the causes (multiple often) of death on the death certificate.

Just because we do it for covid now as well doesnít mean itís not right.
Reply With Quote
  #94467  
Old 14-04-2022, 06:19 AM
917L's Avatar
917L 917L is offline
Zuffenhausen
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Stuttgart
Age: 61
Posts: 47,499
Rep Power: 21474857
917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here917L Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
Itís only an entirely different thing for the purposes of trying to downtalk covid. People died from pneumonia as the primary cause of death pre 2020 when in fact it was the cancer that debilitated their body enough to let pneumonia do itís job. Individuals questioned this occasionally but everyone accepted that the doctors were right to put the causes (multiple often) of death on the death certificate.

Just because we do it for covid now as well doesnít mean itís not right.
Iím not trying to talk down anything, but the stats are complete nonsense

Dying with Covid is not the same as dying from it (which you of course know and acknowledge)

In the majority of cases where people die with Covid, they are not admitted to hospital because of illness caused by Covid, in currently a large % of those wonít even know they have Covid until tested in ED

Itís not comparable to your Pneumonia analogy at all
__________________
Run Silent, Run Deep
Reply With Quote
  #94468  
Old 14-04-2022, 08:55 AM
Norwich_Eagle's Avatar
Norwich_Eagle Norwich_Eagle is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Norwich
Age: 34
Posts: 6,549
Rep Power: 21474854
Norwich_Eagle Sam the man is hereNorwich_Eagle Sam the man is hereNorwich_Eagle Sam the man is hereNorwich_Eagle Sam the man is hereNorwich_Eagle Sam the man is hereNorwich_Eagle Sam the man is hereNorwich_Eagle Sam the man is hereNorwich_Eagle Sam the man is hereNorwich_Eagle Sam the man is hereNorwich_Eagle Sam the man is hereNorwich_Eagle Sam the man is here
I would also like to know at what point do people get Covid while in Hospital. Do they arrive with it as well as something else, or do they go into Hospital with something else and subsequently pick it up.
__________________


Here's Andy Johnson He's More Than Capable... Of Scoring
And He Very Nearly Did.....
And Neil Shipperley has!!!
Reply With Quote
  #94469  
Old 14-04-2022, 09:22 AM
Hpalace Hpalace is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 18,953
Rep Power: 21474843
Hpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by 917L View Post
I’m not trying to talk down anything, but the stats are complete nonsense

Dying with Covid is not the same as dying from it (which you of course know and acknowledge)

In the majority of cases where people die with Covid, they are not admitted to hospital because of illness caused by Covid, in currently a large % of those won’t even know they have Covid until tested in ED

It’s not comparable to your Pneumonia analogy at all
It really is. Pre 2020 most people put on palliative care didn’t have pneumonia. Pneumonia still made their death certificate. No one particularly cared if they died with or of pneumonia. They were more concerned by the dead person.

Unless you are suggesting doctors are in and active players in some kind of conspiracy theory to artificially ‘up the numbers’; I would suggest doctors are best placed to judge whether a flooding of the lungs caused death or cancer (like we always have done).

Last edited by Hpalace; 14-04-2022 at 09:27 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #94470  
Old 14-04-2022, 09:24 AM
Hpalace Hpalace is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 18,953
Rep Power: 21474843
Hpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norwich_Eagle View Post
I would also like to know at what point do people get Covid while in Hospital. Do they arrive with it as well as something else, or do they go into Hospital with something else and subsequently pick it up.
A combination of both like every other respiratory illness.
Reply With Quote
  #94471  
Old 14-04-2022, 09:24 AM
LSEagle's Avatar
LSEagle LSEagle is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The 6.26 from Redhill
Age: 37
Posts: 6,127
Rep Power: 8925408
LSEagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietLSEagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietLSEagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietLSEagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietLSEagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietLSEagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietLSEagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietLSEagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietLSEagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietLSEagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietLSEagle came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
It really is. Pre 2020 most people put on palliative care didnít have pneumonia. Pneumonia still made their death certificate. No one particularly cared if they died with or of pneumonia. They were more concerned by the dead person.
So doesn't that suggest we should be looking at total excess deaths rather than a subset where Covid may or may not have been the primary cause?
Reply With Quote
  #94472  
Old 14-04-2022, 10:07 AM
Hpalace Hpalace is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 18,953
Rep Power: 21474843
Hpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSEagle View Post
So doesn't that suggest we should be looking at total excess deaths rather than a subset where Covid may or may not have been the primary cause?
Both I would imagine.

Although Iím not really sure whatís going on there. Chatting to a funeral director on Tuesday he is busier than he has ever been before and is buying a fleet on new Bentleys on the back of the windfall. Through my work I can see an upturn in probates compared to previous years by circa 30%. Sure thatís anecdotal but company wide and covering the south East of London itís also a bit statistical. It bears no resemblance at all to the overall stats so quite confusing really.
Reply With Quote
  #94473  
Old 14-04-2022, 10:13 AM
kolinkins's Avatar
kolinkins kolinkins is offline
.
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 64,281
Rep Power: 21474858
kolinkins Sam the man is herekolinkins Sam the man is herekolinkins Sam the man is herekolinkins Sam the man is herekolinkins Sam the man is herekolinkins Sam the man is herekolinkins Sam the man is herekolinkins Sam the man is herekolinkins Sam the man is herekolinkins Sam the man is herekolinkins Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
It really is. Pre 2020 most people put on palliative care didnít have pneumonia. Pneumonia still made their death certificate. No one particularly cared if they died with or of pneumonia. They were more concerned by the dead person.

Unless you are suggesting doctors are in and active players in some kind of conspiracy theory to artificially Ďup the numbersí; I would suggest doctors are best placed to judge whether a flooding of the lungs caused death or cancer (like we always have done).
It is not really about that. It is more that how people are actually dying is what should shape public health policy. If people are not dying with Covid as the primary cause, then that should shape a different reaction to 100s of people a day dying just because of Covid
Reply With Quote
  #94474  
Old 14-04-2022, 10:20 AM
Hpalace Hpalace is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 18,953
Rep Power: 21474843
Hpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolinkins View Post
It is not really about that. It is more that how people are actually dying is what should shape public health policy. If people are not dying with Covid as the primary cause, then that should shape a different reaction to 100s of people a day dying just because of Covid
The primary cause on a lot of cancer victims death certificates was pneumonia. A thankfull and relatively painless end to the suffering. Pneumonia deaths have plummeted, covid deaths have rocketed. Itís fairly obvious whatís going on. In that sense. I still think doctors are the best equipped to decide primary and secondary causes of death and I really donít think they are deliberately manipulating the figures.
Reply With Quote
  #94475  
Old 14-04-2022, 10:36 AM
kolinkins's Avatar
kolinkins kolinkins is offline
.
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 64,281
Rep Power: 21474858
kolinkins Sam the man is herekolinkins Sam the man is herekolinkins Sam the man is herekolinkins Sam the man is herekolinkins Sam the man is herekolinkins Sam the man is herekolinkins Sam the man is herekolinkins Sam the man is herekolinkins Sam the man is herekolinkins Sam the man is herekolinkins Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
The primary cause on a lot of cancer victims death certificates was pneumonia. A thankfull and relatively painless end to the suffering. Pneumonia deaths have plummeted, covid deaths have rocketed. Itís fairly obvious whatís going on. In that sense. I still think doctors are the best equipped to decide primary and secondary causes of death and I really donít think they are deliberately manipulating the figures.
I didn't say they were. But if we are going to make public health policy on the back of Covid, it is important detail.
Reply With Quote
  #94476  
Old 14-04-2022, 10:43 AM
Hpalace Hpalace is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 18,953
Rep Power: 21474843
Hpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is hereHpalace Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolinkins View Post
I didn't say they were. But if we are going to make public health policy on the back of Covid, it is important detail.
No more than it is for pneumonia which we also make public health policy about. The doctor ultimately has to decide (in their opinion) what was the primary cause of death and what were the secondary causes. More often than not the secondary causes led to a vulnerability to the primary. This has always been the case and why we have humongous research and investment into cancer and limited research into pneumonia. Health policy is more concerned by what caused the vulnerability than the primary cause.
Reply With Quote
  #94477  
Old 14-04-2022, 12:58 PM
Jukesy's Avatar
Jukesy Jukesy is offline
Poker King
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: West Wickham
Age: 55
Posts: 2,654
Rep Power: 21474856
Jukesy Sam the man is hereJukesy Sam the man is hereJukesy Sam the man is hereJukesy Sam the man is hereJukesy Sam the man is hereJukesy Sam the man is hereJukesy Sam the man is hereJukesy Sam the man is hereJukesy Sam the man is hereJukesy Sam the man is hereJukesy Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by ANDYEAGLE View Post
651 recorded deaths from covid yesterday. Looks like deaths are going through the roof.
Hardly mentioned at all anywhere. Has to be a worry.
The numbers are inflated as several missed updates are being randomly added.

Admissions continue to fall which is the only real barometer.
Reply With Quote
  #94478  
Old 14-04-2022, 01:10 PM
Timbo's Avatar
Timbo Timbo is offline
Shields Utd Futsal Club
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Between Jamaica and St Maarten but Sutton for the summer
Posts: 27,740
Rep Power: 21474860
Timbo Sam the man is hereTimbo Sam the man is hereTimbo Sam the man is hereTimbo Sam the man is hereTimbo Sam the man is hereTimbo Sam the man is hereTimbo Sam the man is hereTimbo Sam the man is hereTimbo Sam the man is hereTimbo Sam the man is hereTimbo Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by ANDYEAGLE View Post
651 recorded deaths from covid yesterday. Looks like deaths are going through the roof.
Hardly mentioned at all anywhere. Has to be a worry.
I was wondering the same, but the 651 figure, which I also saw, seems to have been reapportioned now, and the death figures seem to have resumed their downward trend
Reply With Quote
  #94479  
Old 14-04-2022, 01:17 PM
dogstar721 dogstar721 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,790
Rep Power: 21474847
dogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
Itís only an entirely different thing for the purposes of trying to downtalk covid. People died from pneumonia as the primary cause of death pre 2020 when in fact it was the cancer that debilitated their body enough to let pneumonia do itís job. Individuals questioned this occasionally but everyone accepted that the doctors were right to put the causes (multiple often) of death on the death certificate.

Just because we do it for covid now as well doesnít mean itís not right.
I think that's true in some cases, it's an attempt to deflect by pointing at specific outliers and presenting them as normal.

The simple reality is that they're near enough the same, and as a system of classification in a reliable method used in determine likely deaths. The reality of having to conduct 651 autopsies a day to establish certainty is impossible. As the vast majority of covid deaths are hospital based, it's reliable with acceptable statistical significance.

There just isn't a better method by which to determine Covid deaths outside of hospital diagnosis, in a pandemic of magnitude, without investigating each individual case.

There is definitely a section of society who bizarrely will use any arguments to advance their agenda that it's all a ruse, and would use any means to validate their paranoia. They also happily point a finger of aha at a diagnosis by a doctor without tests to validate their conspiracy hypothesis.

And ignore the fact that it also is compensated by those who did of Covid, without a test of positive in the preceding 28 days.
Reply With Quote
  #94480  
Old 14-04-2022, 01:23 PM
dogstar721 dogstar721 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,790
Rep Power: 21474847
dogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is heredogstar721 Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukesy View Post
The numbers are inflated as several missed updates are being randomly added.

Admissions continue to fall which is the only real barometer.
Admissions and deaths are both significant, it's just measuring them on a single day isn't reliable. You really need to look at the trend analysis over time, to allow for delays in data submission.

They're not randomly inserted, it's just that reporting in real time isn't viable. It doesn't really matter if they died last week, or yesterday, if you study the trend pattern rather than isolated date figures. They're still dead, and in scope.

To be accurate you measure between key determined baselines.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 members and 3 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.