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  #1  
Old 09-01-2021, 09:28 PM
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Joe Biden - The 46th President of the United States

Here we go chaps. Knock yourself out.
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  #2  
Old 09-01-2021, 09:37 PM
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  #3  
Old 09-01-2021, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
This seems unnecessarily cryptic. Your plan to get M4A is to ask the Republicans to vote for it? If Iíve misunderstood please say so.
If the Senate was 50/50 as you say, then obviously M4A is impossible. But if you want it, you need to push for it anyway. If a compromise agreement is reached, it then has a chance of being closer to your terms. If you ask for something worse, then the best case scenario is getting something worse.

I want to buy a shirt. I get quoted £20. I say £10. The guy says £19. I say £11 etc. We settle on £15.

I want to buy a shirt. I get quoted £20. I say £19. Worse deal.
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Old 09-01-2021, 09:38 PM
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Here we go chaps. Knock yourself out.
But never ever ever forget what the only alternative was
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  #5  
Old 09-01-2021, 09:40 PM
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But never ever ever forget what the only alternative was
Kanye West?
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Old 09-01-2021, 09:43 PM
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Kanye West?
that's 2024
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  #7  
Old 09-01-2021, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by meee View Post
If the Senate was 50/50 as you say, then obviously M4A is impossible. But if you want it, you need to push for it anyway. If a compromise agreement is reached, it then has a chance of being closer to your terms. If you ask for something worse, then the best case scenario is getting something worse.

I want to buy a shirt. I get quoted £20. I say £10. The guy says £19. I say £11 etc. We settle on £15.

I want to buy a shirt. I get quoted £20. I say £19. Worse deal.
Iím utterly at a loss as to how you think congress works. You want someone to draft a bill to implement M4A, knowing it will fail, in the belief that it will somehow get you a better deal down the line on a future bill? How is it you imagine that works? That McConnell, Manchin etc will suddenly have their voting it down weigh heavily on the heart the next time a health bill comes up?
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  #8  
Old 09-01-2021, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
Iím utterly at a loss as to how you think congress works. You want someone to draft a bill to implement M4A, knowing it will fail, in the belief that it will somehow get you a better deal down the line on a future bill? How is it you imagine that works? That McConnell, Manchin etc will suddenly have their voting it down weigh heavily on the heart the next time a health bill comes up?
Originally I was talking about a scenario where the Democrats are in control. There is nothing stopping M4A being passed by the Democrats other than the Democrats themselves.

Obviously in your scenario it is a bit different. You need something that some Republicans will be willing to vote for so you have to negotiate before drafting a bill that can be voted on. Why would you start the negotiations from a worse position than the one you want?
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  #9  
Old 09-01-2021, 09:55 PM
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Nice to see Democrats & Republicans getting along.
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  #10  
Old 09-01-2021, 10:05 PM
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Going to be a pretty boring thread I fear after the Orange One's thread.

Still, in true BBS fashion, this can be used to put the man down before he has even kicked a ball, so to speak.
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  #11  
Old 09-01-2021, 10:11 PM
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Going to be a pretty boring thread I fear after the Orange One's thread.

Still, in true BBS fashion, this can be used to put the man down before he has even kicked a ball, so to speak.
As the starter Iím undecided as to how it will go. Full on civil war next week and it might break the 19% thread in quantity of posts.
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  #12  
Old 09-01-2021, 10:15 PM
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As the starter Iím undecided as to how it will go. Full on civil war next week and it might break the 19% thread in quantity of posts.
I fully support Biden having his own thread.

Hopefully it signals the beginning of a new era, and the Trump one can slip down the pecking order and off the front page.

Kudos for putting it in the Politics Forum also.
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  #13  
Old 09-01-2021, 10:17 PM
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I fully support Biden having his own thread.

Hopefully it signals the beginning of a new era, and the Trump one can slip down the pecking order and off the front page.

Kudos for putting it in the Politics Forum also.
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  #14  
Old 09-01-2021, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by meee View Post
Originally I was talking about a scenario where the Democrats are in control. There is nothing stopping M4A being passed by the Democrats other than the Democrats themselves.

Obviously in your scenario it is a bit different. You need something that some Republicans will be willing to vote for so you have to negotiate before drafting a bill that can be voted on. Why would you start the negotiations from a worse position than the one you want?
The democrats are in control now. I simply have no idea what you are talking about when you say trying to pass a M4A bill that you know will fail will lead to greater concessions in the future. How?
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  #15  
Old 09-01-2021, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by meee View Post
If the Senate was 50/50 as you say, then obviously M4A is impossible. But if you want it, you need to push for it anyway. If a compromise agreement is reached, it then has a chance of being closer to your terms. If you ask for something worse, then the best case scenario is getting something worse.

I want to buy a shirt. I get quoted £20. I say £10. The guy says £19. I say £11 etc. We settle on £15.

I want to buy a shirt. I get quoted £20. I say £19. Worse deal.
"Here Bert. This bloke won't haggle."
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  #16  
Old 09-01-2021, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by meee View Post
If the Senate was 50/50 as you say, then obviously M4A is impossible. But if you want it, you need to push for it anyway. If a compromise agreement is reached, it then has a chance of being closer to your terms. If you ask for something worse, then the best case scenario is getting something worse.

I want to buy a shirt. I get quoted £20. I say £10. The guy says £19. I say £11 etc. We settle on £15.

I want to buy a shirt. I get quoted £20. I say £19. Worse deal.
Tried that on the Marks and Sparks website. Didn’t work. It still cost £20.
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  #17  
Old 09-01-2021, 10:33 PM
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I expect Biden's presidency to be steady and very mainstream, dull even.

Rather like Obama's, the only difference being I was hoping Obama might have got more done.

Apart from re-establishing America internationally as a normal democracy and rejoining international groups and treaties, my one hope is that Biden looks at the vast criminal human-warehousing industry. He was part-responsible for the surge in prison numbers I hope he at least has the humanity to unwind the damage he has done.
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  #18  
Old 09-01-2021, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by meee View Post
If the Senate was 50/50 as you say, then obviously M4A is impossible. But if you want it, you need to push for it anyway. If a compromise agreement is reached, it then has a chance of being closer to your terms. If you ask for something worse, then the best case scenario is getting something worse.
I'll just throw this out there in case it is not clear, Any 50/50 vote goes to VP Harris for the deciding vote, so in essence if every Democrat is present and votes with he party, they pass whatever the vote is about.
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Old 09-01-2021, 10:47 PM
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... Rather like Obama's, the only difference being I was hoping Obama might have got more done..
I hear this bandied about quite a lot... not sure I agree. Not everything is to everyone's liking, but still pretty impressive if you ask me:

1. Passed Health Care Reform
2. Rescued the Economy
3. Passed Wall Street Reform
4. Negotiated a Deal to Block A Nuclear Iran
5. Secured U.S. Commitment to a Global Agreement on Climate Change
6. Eliminated Osama bin Laden
7. Ended U.S. Combat Missions in Iraq and Afghanistan
8. Turned Around the U.S. Auto Industry
9. Repealed “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’’
10. Supported Federal Recognition of Same-Sex Marriages
11. Reversed Bush Torture Policies
12. Established Rules to Limit Carbon Emissions from Power Plants
13. Normalized Relations with Cuba
14. Put Medicare on Sounder Financial Footing
15. Protected DREAMers from Deportation
16. Established Net Neutrality
17. Protected Two Liberal Seats on the U.S. Supreme Court
18. Boosted Fuel Efficiency Standards
19. Kicked Banks Out of Federal Student Loan Program, Expanded Pell Grant Funding
20. Improved America’s Image Abroad
21. Left His Mark on the Federal Judiciary
22. Diversified the Federal Bureaucracy
23. Passed Fair Sentencing Act
24. Revived the Department of Justice’s Civil Rights Division
25. Expanded Wilderness and Watershed Protection
26. Gave the FDA the Power to Regulate Tobacco
27. Trimmed and Reoriented Missile Defense
28. Kick-started Clean Energy Investment
29. Reduced the Threat from Nuclear Weapons
30. Passed Credit Card Reforms
31. Cut Veteran Homelessness by Half
32. Enacted Government Surveillance Reform
33. Expanded Overtime Pay
34. Cracked Down on Bad For-Profit Colleges
35. Cut the Deficit
36. Created the College Scorecard
37. Improved School Nutrition
38. Expanded the Definition of Hate Crimes
39. Recognized the Dangers of Carbon Dioxide
40. Strengthened Women’s Right to Fair Pay
41. Secured the Removal of Chemical Weapons from Syria
42. Protected LGBTQ Americans From Employment Discrimination
43. Reduced Discrimination Against Former Prisoners in Federal Hiring
44. Won Major Victories Against Housing and Mortgage Discrimination
45. Expanded Broadband Coverage
46. Expanded Health Coverage for Children
47. Improved Food Safety
48. Let the Space Shuttle Die and Killed the Planned Moon Mission
49. Rebuilt and Fortified the Gulf Coast post-Katrina
50. Avoided Scandal
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  #20  
Old 09-01-2021, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
The democrats are in control now. I simply have no idea what you are talking about when you say trying to pass a M4A bill that you know will fail will lead to greater concessions in the future. How?
This was what I was responding to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
I know itís a significant upgrade. I think itís batshit the US doesnít have a single payer system as it is. I supported a candidate who wanted to introduce it (though sadly I canít see how she would have been able to either).

I asked you what was achievable. You can say you want the moon on a stick as much as you like, it isnít going to get it for you.

Letís suspend disbelief and say Sanders was the candidate, won, but otherwise had the exact same senate as Biden (I know Vermont has a Republican governor but letís not get into Sanders replacement etc, just assume itís a 50-50 senate).

What would Sanders do to achieve M4A? You know as well as I do heíd be in the same bind and so looking to improve the current system as best he could.

I donít see why itís so difficult to just be upfront about that.
In order to improve the current system, you need to push for something more than improving the current system, rhetoric wise. You can't get a concession for something you have already conceded.

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"Here Bert. This bloke won't haggle."
Exactly

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Originally Posted by Hpalace View Post
Tried that on the Marks and Sparks website. Didnít work. It still cost £20.
That's kind of the point. The Democratic party is funded by big business so they are not prepared to do anything outside of their interests. So instead of going to find something cheaper or better or more local, they decide to pay top dollar to the already wealthy.
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