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  #129961  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:16 PM
Baffled Bob 2 Baffled Bob 2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Wolfnipplechips View Post
The real question is, despite the uncertainty, are you still prepared to give Johnson and his acolytes the benefit of the doubt?
No. But is there that much doubt?

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  #129962  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:17 PM
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No. But is there that much doubt?

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No doubt for me Bob... but then that won’t surprise you will it?
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  #129963  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
I'm not a Tory/Brexit shill. Brexit is still the weirdest act of national self harm since the war.

But I really don't believe we would have been in this excellent position regarding vaccines if we were still members. We'll never know for sure of course.
I know youre not a Tory shill Baffled but can you name 1 decision that was made that we would not have been able to do as EU members? Just 1?

Nb The fact that we were EU members when the decisions were taken should be a clue.

It's just an entirely false narrative put out by the brexit press to distract attention from the rest of the shitshow.
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  #129964  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:18 PM
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You utter ****.
All he is doing is trolling, and is doing a very bad job of it and all.
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  #129965  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
I'm not a Tory/Brexit shill. Brexit is still the weirdest act of national self harm since the war.

But I really don't believe we would have been in this excellent position regarding vaccines if we were still members. We'll never know for sure of course.
Why when in the only historic example available we went alone in procurement. Not only that but when we then subsequently did an independent review of the uk’s pandemic response in 2009 the review applauded the decision to go alone in vaccine procurement.

On top of that Hancock himself said after watching Matt Damon prance around in ‘pandemic’ “ "The insight that was so necessary at the start was that the big pressure on vaccines internationally would not be before they were approved - of course, there was a huge amount of work then - but it was after they are approved. So, one of the things I did early (on), was insist that when we had the Oxford vaccine, and we backed it from the start and that was great, I insisted that UK production protects people in the UK in the first instance. And, as the UK Health Secretary, that is my duty."”

It had **** all to do with brexit or the Eu. The uk strategy has always been to go it alone on vaccine procurement for the reason Matt Hancock, the ******* health secretary went on ITV and told everyone. To secure doses ahead of anyone else before they were even trialed for the benefit of uk citizens. We even did it while we still in the ******* EU!
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  #129966  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:23 PM
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All he is doing is trolling, and is doing a very bad job of it and all.
I’m not so sure Razor.

Sadly, I think he really believes it. At least he’s got the courage of his conviction unlike some others we could mention....
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  #129967  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:25 PM
Baffled Bob 2 Baffled Bob 2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Johnybegood View Post
I know youre not a Tory shill Baffled but can you name 1 decision that was made that we would not have been able to do as EU members? Just 1?

Nb The fact that we were EU members when the decisions were taken should be a clue.

It's just an entirely false narrative put out by the brexit press to distract attention from the rest of the shitshow.
The rest is very much a shit show.

But would we have struck out on our own and made our own deals on vaccines if we were still EU members? I am sure we would have gone along with the EU procurement strategy because it would have seemed a sensible economy of scale.

We bet the house on the vaccines on our own signing what might have been horrific blank cheque contracts. Had they all failed it would have been a catastrophic strategy. It didn't so we can credit the government and the Brexiteers for that. They bet on red. It came up red.
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  #129968  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:27 PM
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No doubt for me Bob... but then that won’t surprise you will it?
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  #129969  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
The rest is very much a shit show.

But would we have struck out on our own and made our own deals on vaccines if we were still EU members? I am sure we would have gone along with the EU procurement strategy because it would have seemed a sensible economy of scale.

We bet the house on the vaccines on our own signing what might have been horrific blank cheque contracts. Had they all failed it would have been a catastrophic strategy. It didn't so we can credit the government and the Brexiteers for that. They bet on red. It came up red.
Well yes we would have struck out on our own as HP describes more fully above. It was entirely within the the rules to do so and is what we had chosen to do historically
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  #129970  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:32 PM
Hpalace Hpalace is offline
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Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
The rest is very much a shit show.

But would we have struck out on our own and made our own deals on vaccines if we were still EU members? I am sure we would have gone along with the EU procurement strategy because it would have seemed a sensible economy of scale.

We bet the house on the vaccines on our own signing what might have been horrific blank cheque contracts. Had they all failed it would have been a catastrophic strategy. It didn't so we can credit the government and the Brexiteers for that. They bet on red. It came up red.
Gordon Brown who rejected Eu joint procurement in 2009 and purchased vaccines solely for the uk (rejecting economies of scale in favour of vaccine security) was pro EU and has described brexit as “A huge act of self harm”.
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  #129971  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:34 PM
Baffled Bob 2 Baffled Bob 2 is offline
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Gordon Brown who rejected Eu joint procurement in 2009 and purchased vaccines solely for the uk (rejecting economies of scale in favour of vaccine security) was pro EU and has described brexit as “A huge act of self harm”.
Love Gordon. Quality big beast politician.
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  #129972  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:35 PM
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Love Gordon. Quality big beast politician.
Good politician

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  #129973  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:37 PM
Baffled Bob 2 Baffled Bob 2 is offline
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Good politician

Hopeless PM
We'd have been f**ked if the useless Tories had been in power during the financial crisis.

Far from hopeless as a PM
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  #129974  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:38 PM
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Good politician

Hopeless PM
Could you explain why?
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  #129975  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:38 PM
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Good politician

Hopeless PM
Nice guy, too. Always pleasant when I encountered him at HM Treasury.
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  #129976  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:40 PM
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Good politician

Hopeless PM
Not much of a precious metal salesman....
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  #129977  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
The rest is very much a shit show.

But would we have struck out on our own and made our own deals on vaccines if we were still EU members? I am sure we would have gone along with the EU procurement strategy because it would have seemed a sensible economy of scale.

We bet the house on the vaccines on our own signing what might have been horrific blank cheque contracts. Had they all failed it would have been a catastrophic strategy. It didn't so we can credit the government and the Brexiteers for that. They bet on red. It came up red.
Agreed. But it’s increasingly pointless even trying to have a debate on this thread without being derided. Decision are rarely if ever 100% right/0% wrong and Brexit no different. I agree with you and Bigend1 that all of Brexit has been negative, with the possible/probable exception being the vaccine. Which by the way is a view shared by the majority of the country, remain and Brexit voters alike. Hey ho…
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  #129978  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:41 PM
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Nice guy, too. Always pleasant when I encountered him at HM Treasury.
Yes seemed a good sort. Blotted his copy book a little with the ‘bigoted women’ comment in that regard
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  #129979  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:43 PM
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We'd have been f**ked if the useless Tories had been in power during the financial crisis.

Far from hopeless as a PM
Hardly. Labour aren’t exactly famous for their financial nouse are they.

He was a poor PM. Just didn’t have the overall skills needed I’m afraid.
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  #129980  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:45 PM
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Not much of a precious metal salesman....
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